Who's worse?

[adamiani]

Obviously, I'm deliberately overstating it, but I think it's accurate. Spiking the punch with laxatives instead of toothpaste is the most concrete thing she did wrong, and the only bit that appears illegal. She toyed with some peoples' emotions (which I bracket into being a mean girl). She may have had a role in worsening Michelle's anorexia (I think she thinks she had a lot more to do with it than she actually did). It's not that much of an exaggeration.

Does she have much to do with the underlying conditions that led to Michelle being vulnerable to anorexia in the first place? Well, of course not. But that's not the same thing at all as saying she things she has a lot more to do with it than she actually did. In order to arrive at that conclusion, in addition to doing a lot of squinting and head-tilting, you have to ignore her role in the Injustice Gang, her skill at reading people's vulnerabilities, her thus-far lack of moral compass and empathy, her ruthlessness, her...on and on and on.

I don't think you can cause anorexia with a handful of well-placed words. She doesn't have mind control powers-- and that wasn't even her objective (the primary goal being: drive Michelle away from Penny). It's something that had roots before Cyndi, and lasted after the two of them stopped hanging out.

I think Cyndi probably believes she caused Michelle's anorexia (as in her "confession" to Stan). I think she's flattered by the notion. I think she played a contributing role in it. But there are only a couple of strips with Michelle and Cyndi together, and only a few of them focus on the weight thing. Near as I can tell the fallout from her breakup with Stan (Rackalicious!) was by far the major factor, and she'd been vulnerable to that since her first appearance in the strip. I think Cyndi's view of her own importance is likely self-aggrandizement; it makes her feel important, it makes her feel "hot."

What Cyndi did may not have been that destructive. It was, however, unconscionable and malicious. And while what she's done has not been that destructive, it certainly could have turned out much worse, and I don't think she would have cared.

My general theory of the Charlotte/Cyndi breakdown has been that people understand Charlotte and the forces that drive her to do the things she's done, but we have no understanding of Cyndi's motives besides pure wickedness. Because of that, they're willing to attribute to her infinite evil, because, after all, what else is there? She gets seen as worse, even though her sins are an order of magnitude less than Charlotte's. But either this isn't the case (in which case she has greater depths) or it IS, in which case she's just as badly messed-up-in-the-head as Charlotte, just not in as immediately sympathetic a way because we can't put a face on the causal forces and make them the villain, the way we can with Charlotte and her mother.

I'm curious though that in the last week or so, it's gone from being a 15/14 split to 29/18. I wonder if something has changed peoples' minds?

[sentora]

Obviously, I'm deliberately overstating it, but I think it's accurate. Spiking the punch with laxatives instead of toothpaste is the most concrete thing she did wrong, and the only bit that appears illegal. She toyed with some peoples' emotions (which I bracket into being a mean girl). She may have had a role in worsening Michelle's anorexia (I think she thinks she had a lot more to do with it than she actually did). It's not that much of an exaggeration.

Does she have much to do with the underlying conditions that led to Michelle being vulnerable to anorexia in the first place? Well, of course not. But that's not the same thing at all as saying she things she has a lot more to do with it than she actually did. In order to arrive at that conclusion, in addition to doing a lot of squinting and head-tilting, you have to ignore her role in the Injustice Gang, her skill at reading people's vulnerabilities, her thus-far lack of moral compass and empathy, her ruthlessness, her...on and on and on.

I don't think you can cause anorexia with a handful of well-placed words. She doesn't have mind control powers-- and that wasn't even her objective (the primary goal being: drive Michelle away from Penny). It's something that had roots before Cyndi, and lasted after the two of them stopped hanging out.

I think Cyndi probably believes she caused Michelle's anorexia (as in her "confession" to Stan). I think she's flattered by the notion. I think she played a contributing role in it. But there are only a couple of strips with Michelle and Cyndi together, and only a few of them focus on the weight thing. Near as I can tell the fallout from her breakup with Stan (Rackalicious!) was by far the major factor, and she'd been vulnerable to that since her first appearance in the strip. I think Cyndi's view of her own importance is likely self-aggrandizement; it makes her feel important, it makes her feel "hot."

What Cyndi did may not have been that destructive. It was, however, unconscionable and malicious. And while what she's done has not been that destructive, it certainly could have turned out much worse, and I don't think she would have cared.

My general theory of the Charlotte/Cyndi breakdown has been that people understand Charlotte and the forces that drive her to do the things she's done, but we have no understanding of Cyndi's motives besides pure wickedness. Because of that, they're willing to attribute to her infinite evil, because, after all, what else is there? She gets seen as worse, even though her sins are an order of magnitude less than Charlotte's. But either this isn't the case (in which case she has greater depths) or it IS, in which case she's just as badly messed-up-in-the-head as Charlotte, just not in as immediately sympathetic a way because we can't put a face on the causal forces and make them the villain, the way we can with Charlotte and her mother.

I'm curious though that in the last week or so, it's gone from being a 15/14 split to 29/18. I wonder if something has changed peoples' minds?

It's possible, especially if you attack a particular weakness or encourage it via peer pressure or as a means of reaching a certain goal. A lot of cases of Anorexia start that way, someone attacking a girl's insecurities about her weight and looks, when there's already pressure via society and media.

Although after monday's strip, I do have to wonder if there were other factors to her anorexia than we saw back then.

On the matter of the poll, I think Cyndi's manner of persuasion tipped the scales against her.

[Enkai]

Although after monday's strip, I do have to wonder if there were other factors to her anorexia than we saw back then.

It wouldn't surprise me. The oddities of Michelle's eating disorder were pointed out During the posicle war. She may have had some insecurities about her weight before then, but I certainly can't see any. In the case of the strips most often linked strips "suggesting" otherwise, both seem to suggest that she KNOWS she's skinny (and in the case of the first, she knows she's skinnier than Penny). Cyndi's attack seemed to focus more on her insecurity about Stan to develop the body image issues.

Also, Michelle did mention familiarity with laxatives and the like, which could suggest that Cyndi's interference was more than just mental. Probably not without Michelle agreeing to "help" with portion control, but I could see Cyndi offering her "appetite suppressants" that did more than what Cyndi said.

[sentora]

Although after monday's strip, I do have to wonder if there were other factors to her anorexia than we saw back then.

It wouldn't surprise me. The oddities of Michelle's eating disorder were pointed out During the posicle war. She may have had some insecurities about her weight before then, but I certainly can't see any. In the case of the strips most often linked strips "suggesting" otherwise, both seem to suggest that she KNOWS she's skinny (and in the case of the first, she knows she's skinnier than Penny). Cyndi's attack seemed to focus more on her insecurity about Stan to develop the body image issues.

Also, Michelle did mention familiarity with laxatives and the like, which could suggest that Cyndi's interference was more than just mental. Probably not without Michelle agreeing to "help" with portion control, but I could see Cyndi offering her "appetite suppressants" that did more than what Cyndi said.

Looking back at some of the earlier arcs in general recently is making me reevaluate certain characters. Never thought Michelle would be one of them, or Cyndi.

[Davidj]

That's my point: it's premature to say, "Cyndi can't be fixed," because she hasn't gotten that sort of screen-time.

Cyndi has been getting boatloads of screen time in recent months. It's just that none of it hints at her being redeemable. Whereas from very early on we could see that Charlotte was conflicted.

[Davidj]

Wouldja believe I forgot to actually vote until now? Seems kind of redundant. But needless to say, my opinion hasn't been altered by recent events.

[RD]

That's my point: it's premature to say, "Cyndi can't be fixed," because she hasn't gotten that sort of screen-time.

Cyndi has been getting boatloads of screen time in recent months. It's just that none of it hints at her being redeemable. Whereas from very early on we could see that Charlotte was conflicted.

Exactly. I don't feel like going through to determine who appears in more panels, who has more lines, etc- but Cyndi has gotten a good amount of coverage. We've seen her at home, in intimate situations, "chillaxing" with friends, speaking publically, now we've seen her beaten and kidnapped and threatened with a knife- a much wider range of situations than Charlotte has gotten, and none of it has indicated "redeemable". Today's strip only furthers that for me.