Foobetter 'r Foowurse

[Pudding]

Just in time for For Better or For Worse's inevitable storyline in which Anthony and Liz get together, T. and Amy Mebberson wrote this!

I love this. The mustache gag, the pun, the blinking, the Johnston family dynamics...it's brilliant.

[daanton]

Just in time for For Better or For Worse's inevitable storyline in which Anthony and Liz get together, T. and Amy Mebberson wrote this!

I love this. The mustache gag, the pun, the blinking, the Johnston family dynamics...it's brilliant.

I never knew Lynn Johnston looked that old... but then I guess 2D drawings sometimes add a couple more wrinkles than usual...

But is this meant to say: keep Liz and Anthony forever apart? As if T and Amy don't want that "inevitable storyline" to ever happen...


Oh, just look at me, I just love to open wider the floodgates of knockdown, drag-em-out debate, don't I??

[Jabroniville]

I realized a long time ago that Lynn wrote her characters as doing the things she wished her children would do. In fact, I think her son or daughter commented on it in one of her books ("So mom told me one day I should try to be a reporter, but I wasn't interested. Sure enough, the next month...."). Frankly, I hardly know of a single mother who DOESN'T do this, so it's hard to fault Lynn for writing things that way, and her kids just seemed to chuckle along with it. It's been established in FBOFW that Anthony was more like Liz's dad anyhow (which is why she was attracted to him... at least that was Michael's take on it, and it seemed pretty true), even though he's a bit of an indecisive dork.

Is it right that Liz & Anthony will get together? I'm not sure. Lynn never did give Liz a real solid boyfriend that had marriage potential (the college bf was a cheater, the pilot & cop by the reservation were just so freaking BORING in their handsome kind perfection), so wimpy Anthony's pretty much the best one of the pile in that he's at least an interesting character. Maybe not in the best possible way, but there ya go.

Gotta give Lynn credit though. I just realized her cast is only about the size of most webcomics', despite the fact that it's been around three times as long as even the LONGEST running webcomics, and about ten times as long as most other successful ones (and she still has a pretty big cast).

[Freemage]

One big objection, of course, is "Why should Liz 'settle' for anyone?" In other words, why not let her just keep looking for someone who isn't a spineless, milquetoast dweeb with a mustache that must, for the love of all that is holy, be removed with a blowtorch ASAP? Hell, why can't she just go solo for awhile? If the argument implicit in FBOFW is that she isn't complete until she's got herself a man and managed to spawn, my gut-reaction is not fit for print. And I've been a fan for years. Bleah.

Also: Make sure you read the footnote.

[Jabroniville]

Heh. I find a few things hilarious about this whole thing:


(Not trying to be a dick here or anything, just making some funny comments. No one be offended )


1) It seems like most 'mainstream' (as mainstream as they'll get anyways) webcomic artists & writers see perfectly fit to trash print comics at will, but restrain themselves when it comes to webcomics (the worst I've seen among the ones I've read is the Penny Arcade/PVP gag rivalry). What is it that causes that? A 'one for all' mentality amongst the writers? A rejection of the drama that tends to start when faction wars erupt on the internet? And I'm not trashing T or Randy for their opinions (Hell, I loved reading their opinions on the matter); I just wonder why they give other webcomics the benefit of the doubt, but Lynn Johnston's choices in writing are fair game? Personally, I'd love for Randy Milholland to just go off on Jeph Jacques or something. That'd be hilarious.

2) I've done the whole "watch and read something you've hated for a long time just because" thing, and I understand it fully. I watched "Happy Days" on repeats, two episodes a day, taped from some early-morning airing a couple years ago, and I mean the WHOLE THING. From the great early seasons to the UTTER CRAP with Ted McGinley, Fonzie dating the rich society girl with the daughter, Joanie & Chachi, etc. I watched it until they had more crap seasons than good ones, just so that I could say I'd seen the whole thing. I think that's it; the desire to stick with it THROUGH IT ALL so you can maintain some kind of nerdly 'expert opinion' on stuff you once loved, because now you'd seen it all. I did the same thing with the Titans restart DC did with Devin Grayson initially writing a few years back (with the original team and some newbies); I liked the first batch and LOVED the old Wolfman/Perez stuff, but OH GOD did it get bad, and HARD. And yet I bought them till issue 45 or something, and just went "My God! I've been spending four bucks a month on CRAP!" That "alternate universe of drug addicts" payoff storyline is one of the worst in comics' history, bar none, and I actually PAID MONEY FOR IT.

Regarding comic strips, I read the entire archives of Queen of Wands, and I don't even particularly like it. I didn't hate it or anything (it's just so bleh. So full of false drama and REALLY pretentious 'flashback storylines' that seemed like they were supposed to be deep), but something inside of me insisted I read the whole archives.

3) Hey, For Better or For Worse has fallen from it's peak, no question. Not arguing that. While it's greatest era in my opinion is of Mike in High School (Gord's abusive dad storyline, and of course, Lawrence coming out of the closet before every single webcomic ever had a gay cast member, and back when that took the HUGEST BALLS IN EXISTENCE to even DARE to put into a comic), and when Elly's mom died, I think it'd been falling for a while. Liz running around Mtigwaki or whatever was kind of a unique idea, but ultimately dull (what COULD you do on a native reserve anyways? Not exactly ripe with storytelling ideas), and the Anthony thing is ridiculously forced (even for a comic strip). But I've said it before and I'll say it again: Lynn Johnston's crap writing is still better than most people's best, so I'll still be there in the end. Even with some crap final years (think Simpsons) it deserves to be in the All Time Comics Top Five (along with Peanuts, Calvin & Hobbes and whatever else you think rules at any given time).

4) Oh, and keep in mind Lynn's pretty damn old now. Mid-fifties at least. I can't think of ANY comic writers who didn't fall by the time they were that age. Peanuts sucked for it's last twenty years (blasphemy, I know, but we all know the only good Peanuts stuff happened pre-90s), Johnny Hart went crazy Christian insane, etc. It's pretty much to be expected that the strip would start sucking around this time. I'd like to read Penny & Aggie when T. Campbell is 50, and they've just gotten into college, and everyone's still mistaking characters for other characters and bitching about certain characters being the epitome of all evil.

5) Name any flaw in For Better or For Worse, and I'll name the same kind of flaw in one of the big webcomic strips. Even the pros make mistakes . You want characters being pushed together for no reason? Jason/Aubrey in Something Positive had no attraction to each other (well, Jason did, but AUBREY?) for years, and suddenly she falls for him because he didn't rape her while she was drunk (and he wants 'meaning' in his one night stands? Isn't that, y'know, completely NOT the point of one night stands?)? Forgotten/ignored characters and plotlines? When was the last time we saw Anna in S*P anyways? Or freaking Monette, Lisa, etc, not to mention the fact that the entire past year of S*P has basically been dropped idea after dropped idea (the webcomic with Jason, Davan directing a play and getting Celie involved, working for Mr. Sanderson...) Geeky guys getting girls is offensive to women? You've READ Questionable Content, right? When was the last time skinny emo bois like Marten got TWO hot girls falling in love with him other than in geeky comic writers' fantasies. Or, y'know, Penny even dating Duane in P&A. And these are my FAVORITE WEBCOMICS I'm talking about.


T's comic is still funny though. Just a little mean-spirited. I do know that almost any old lady with a family tends to be like Lynn, though. Wonder how he'd react if Lynn did a comic about how silly and drawn-out "Dinner For Six" got around the middle .

[Shadrach]

I see your point, Jabroniville, but remember that it isn't just web cartoonists attacking newspaper cartoonists. Perhaps you remember the Dilbert/Zippy the Pinhead feud? (Bill Griffith did a strip making fun of the crude art in Dilbert, and Scott Adams in return did a short arc in which Dogbert creates "Pippy the Ziphead," which Dilbert notes consists only of a clown saying random things.) Frank Cho's Liberty Meadows has often made fun (in a much nastier way than Griffith/Adams) of Cathy and the past-its-prime Peanuts. (Mind you, back when Liberty Meadows still appeared in newspapers, readers generally didn't get to see those parodies because the lawsuit-fearing syndicate wouldn't run them. But they are in the print anthologies.) Similarly, sitcoms have been known to take potshots at other sitcoms, novelists at other novelists (Capote vs. Bellow being just one example). So I don't see FBOFW criticism as being web cartoonists as a group ganging up on a newspaper-syndicated cartoonist.

[TCampbell]

Oh, trust me, there's plenty of webcartoonist-on-webcartoonist satire, too. Just ask Scott McCloud.

As for my inevitable future as an old fart, I always remind myself that my favorite Tom Wolfe stuff was written in his seventies, including one book about early college life that was an influence on Penny and Aggie (not necessarily recommended, though. The tone is a lot more depressing). I think features have more of an age problem than artists do: strip cartoonists change and grow, but they still find themselves wedded to the ideas they had five years ago. Johnston's approach is more resistant to this problem than most, but not immune to it.

[missMagdalena]

1) It seems like most 'mainstream' (as mainstream as they'll get anyways) webcomic artists & writers see perfectly fit to trash print comics at will, but restrain themselves when it comes to webcomics (the worst I've seen among the ones I've read is the Penny Arcade/PVP gag rivalry). What is it that causes that? A 'one for all' mentality amongst the writers? A rejection of the drama that tends to start when faction wars erupt on the internet? And I'm not trashing T or Randy for their opinions (Hell, I loved reading their opinions on the matter); I just wonder why they give other webcomics the benefit of the doubt, but Lynn Johnston's choices in writing are fair game? Personally, I'd love for Randy Milholland to just go off on Jeph Jacques or something. That'd be hilarious.

Well, I'm not a webcomic artist, but I think it's probably because the webcomic community is pretty far removed from the print comic community. I doubt that Lynn Johnston is going to be seeing this any time soon. But webcomics are so tight-knit, if you poke fun at someone they'll show up the next day asking you about it. Also, there IS parody among webcomics - the first one that comes to mind is xkcd's parody week (starting here) in which he hit Achewood, Megatokyo, Toothpaste for Dinner and Natalie Dee, A Softer World, Dinosaur Comics, and a little bit later Penny Arcade (although I'm not sure if that one counts...).

Geeky guys getting girls is offensive to women? You've READ Questionable Content, right? When was the last time skinny emo bois like Marten got TWO hot girls falling in love with him other than in geeky comic writers' fantasies. Or, y'know, Penny even dating Duane in P&A. And these are my FAVORITE WEBCOMICS I'm talking about.

Actually, if Marten were real I'd tap that ass so fast it wouldn't be visible to the naked eye. Just sayin'.

[Bardic Nerd]

Geeky guys getting girls is offensive to women? You've READ Questionable Content, right? When was the last time skinny emo bois like Marten got TWO hot girls falling in love with him other than in geeky comic writers' fantasies. Or, y'know, Penny even dating Duane in P&A. And these are my FAVORITE WEBCOMICS I'm talking about.

Actually, if Marten were real I'd tap that ass so fast it wouldn't be visible to the naked eye. Just sayin'.

Yes, but we have no proof you're a hot girl.

*grins*

Actually, I see it whenever I see my younger brother. He's not a skinny emo boy, but . . . think of him as a cross between Martin and Aggie. And he has girls falling over him left and right.

The irony being, of course, that he doesn't like girls. Nor does he like guys either, actually. So why he get to attract both and I get to attract neither, I don't know.

[missMagdalena]

Geeky guys getting girls is offensive to women? You've READ Questionable Content, right? When was the last time skinny emo bois like Marten got TWO hot girls falling in love with him other than in geeky comic writers' fantasies. Or, y'know, Penny even dating Duane in P&A. And these are my FAVORITE WEBCOMICS I'm talking about.

Actually, if Marten were real I'd tap that ass so fast it wouldn't be visible to the naked eye. Just sayin'.

Yes, but we have no proof you're a hot girl.

*grins*

Well, judge for yourself, then.

And to keep this post from being nothing more than Myspacey LOOK AT ME, I should say that I really love Foobetter 'r Fooworse. I think it's very clever - no surprise there - and the mustache made me laugh out loud. Perfectly captures how we all feel about that strip. It used to be so good... and, seriously, it's not too late. T and Amy Mebberson both rock so hard.

[Freemage]

Okay, this is... scary. The mustache is gone!

Sadly, it seems this is the only point on which she's listening to the readership. This train-wreck of a once-great series is, unfortunately, picking up speed.

[Bardic Nerd]

Geeky guys getting girls is offensive to women? You've READ Questionable Content, right? When was the last time skinny emo bois like Marten got TWO hot girls falling in love with him other than in geeky comic writers' fantasies. Or, y'know, Penny even dating Duane in P&A. And these are my FAVORITE WEBCOMICS I'm talking about.

Actually, if Marten were real I'd tap that ass so fast it wouldn't be visible to the naked eye. Just sayin'.

Yes, but we have no proof you're a hot girl.

*grins*

Well, judge for yourself, then.

My ploy worked!

[daanton]

One big objection, of course, is "Why should Liz 'settle' for anyone?" In other words, why not let her just keep looking for someone who isn't a spineless, milquetoast dweeb with a mustache that must, for the love of all that is holy, be removed with a blowtorch ASAP? Hell, why can't she just go solo for awhile? If the argument implicit in FBOFW is that she isn't complete until she's got herself a man and managed to spawn, my gut-reaction is not fit for print. And I've been a fan for years. Bleah.

Also: Make sure you read the footnote.

Granted, but if Elizabeth and Anthony were meant to be together, why is the mood out there that that never happens when there's been a few moments between them where it's been "close-but-not-cigar"??

They don't have to marry right away, if that's what you're worried about. They can keep dating, until some time down the road they will...

Now if this isn't an indication that there are still some feelings between them, I don't know what could be:

http://www.fborfw.com/strip_fix/strips/ ... 616fed.gif

[Freemage]

One big objection, of course, is "Why should Liz 'settle' for anyone?" In other words, why not let her just keep looking for someone who isn't a spineless, milquetoast dweeb with a mustache that must, for the love of all that is holy, be removed with a blowtorch ASAP? Hell, why can't she just go solo for awhile? If the argument implicit in FBOFW is that she isn't complete until she's got herself a man and managed to spawn, my gut-reaction is not fit for print. And I've been a fan for years. Bleah.

Also: Make sure you read the footnote.

Granted, but if Elizabeth and Anthony were meant to be together, why is the mood out there that that never happens when there's been a few moments between them where it's been "close-but-not-cigar"??

They don't have to marry right away, if that's what you're worried about. They can keep dating, until some time down the road they will...

Now if this isn't an indication that there are still some feelings between them, I don't know what could be:

http://www.fborfw.com/strip_fix/strips/ ... 616fed.gif

Sure, there's 'feelings', because we're told about them. As the article T. linked to explains, though, there's no explanation whatsoever WHY Liz has any feelings for Anthony, other than the author having decided that you should always marry your childhood sweetheart.

[daanton]

Sadly, it seems this is the only point on which she's listening to the readership.

All I can say is: if she did listen to the readership this one time in the past, she wouldn't have dealt further in the story of Michael's best friend Lawrence Poirier discovering for himself that he is gay.

Or simply it would never have been told.