Off-topic: Race.

[Captain LeBubbles]

And LeBubbles, I know you meant well with the positive approach you suggested (ie, the "add more diversity to the cast to appeal to a wider audience" thing--but that's a spot-fix that then must be repeated for every instance; systemic racism, like other other privilege forms, needs to ultimately be addressed systemically, or it just creeps back as soon as you take your eye off the ball).

Well of course I was deliberately simplifying so I would have an example, but even on a grand scale it's a lot easier to address anything if you're not shouting angrish left and right.

[Lia S]

I look more or less like my current avatar. I live in the Netherlands.

I think it's sad it surprises me when a dark-skinned girl flirts at me. Even in places where everyone works or studies together as friendly equals, most people tend to date those who have the same skin colour. I don't know if that's racism or the fact that people with the same (sub)culture usually have the same race. Or maybe racist older relatives are the problem. About half the girls I've kissed were born in China, I can tell you not all of their relatives were happy about me . (I'm talking about the time when I still lived as a "man", by the way.) Yellow fever? Nope. When you study computer science here, many if not most female students are Chinese... They don't have that stupid prejudice that women cannot possibly understand technology. Also, one (married) Chinese woman told me I'm "traditional" (I LOL'd inside) meaning I don't want casual sex and such.

Sometimes I accuse myself of racism when I feel nervous about walking past groups of boys with a hostile appearance... but I'm just as nervous when they're white or the group isn't all one colour. It's just that they're usually not white... probably because most white boys have jobs? I know it's much more difficult to get a job when one has the wrong surname because employers are afraid you might steal from them or scare customers away or etc. This of course leads to more angry bored young non-white men making people nervous (and more racist when they don't really think about their own thoughts and feelings like I do). Racism is a growing problem over here. Well, I guess if you're white and decide to become a Muslim you'll get into similar trouble, so maybe racism isn't the most accurate word, but I think it's the most suitable one we have.

Writing this post made me sad. I guess I'll go eat some chocolate (no bad joke intended).

[NobodySpecial]

I'll be honest, I do think it's kind of funny when white people are like "I'm German/Irish/English mix." Those are all white. We're talking about race, not the nationality of your ancestors...

(This would apply to other races, but I don't think I've ever seen a non-white person do it.)

I would agree with this if only the Irish who came over here weren't discriminated against as much as the Blacks. The IQ test was invented to prove the Irish were too stupid to be civilized, for Pete's sake.

[Artemisia]

Ethnic stereotypes still exist, in fact. Think about it. How many people still think of Italians and mobsters?

There are a lot of prejudices out there, if we are honest about it. If we are honest about it, prejudice always works on a scale and the most 'not like me' someone is the more we tend to be prejudiced against them- especially if we lack any empathy for others.

[AmberBeth84]

Valerie, to be fair, read some of what Benjamin Franklin wrote about race. He lauds the English race while talking about how backward, degenerate, and lazy other European races are. It wasn't until after WWII that American whites unified and abandoned their ethnic prejudices and adopted an us whites against the blacks mindset. Oh, and they all hated Jews openly until after WWII as well. That's when Antisemitism became not cool in mainstream culture. And if we're talking specifically about race there are only 3-6 races. Mongoloid, Caucasoid, and Negroid being the primary three, though I've seen where some anthropologists classify American aboriginals (I use that term because it applies to everyone on both continents before European conquest; I may be mistaken, but I think Native American is used only to apply to those who reside in the United States), Australian/Papuan aboriginals, and Khoisan separately. Going by that standard, then I'm Caucasoid.

[Artemisia]

Well, if we want to get absolutely technical- there's only one race and we are all descendent of a group of people who closely resemble the !Kung of the Kalahari.

[Cheshire]

I'll be honest, I do think it's kind of funny when white people are like "I'm German/Irish/English mix." Those are all white. We're talking about race, not the nationality of your ancestors...

(This would apply to other races, but I don't think I've ever seen a non-white person do it.)

I would agree with this if only the Irish who came over here weren't discriminated against as much as the Blacks. The IQ test was invented to prove the Irish were too stupid to be civilized, for Pete's sake.

Yes, but the situation of an Irish-American today is absolutely nothing like being an Irish dock worker in the 1920's, and it never will be again.

[LookingIn]

When I lived in California, there were some Hispanics that had no problem with "beaner," which I think is supposed to be at least mildly offensive, right?
(I'm just an ignorant southern white girl. I don't know these things. That's why I make threads like this. D: )
I assumed it was an in-group privilege thing, since they would use it playfully.

I mean, getting mad and using it... That's like if I got mad at Otaking and called him a cracker (which he is, no matter how much he thinks he's a honkey ).

Beaner is offensive, to Mexicans it would be akin to calling them the n-word.

[NobodySpecial]

I'll be honest, I do think it's kind of funny when white people are like "I'm German/Irish/English mix." Those are all white. We're talking about race, not the nationality of your ancestors...

(This would apply to other races, but I don't think I've ever seen a non-white person do it.)

I would agree with this if only the Irish who came over here weren't discriminated against as much as the Blacks. The IQ test was invented to prove the Irish were too stupid to be civilized, for Pete's sake.

Yes, but the situation of an Irish-American today is absolutely nothing like being an Irish dock worker in the 1920's, and it never will be again.

...and the situation of an African-American today bears little resemblance to being a slave in the 1850's - but yet stereotypes are still perpetuated, from the drunken Mick to the Neeeeegros that will rape your white women the moment you turn your back. Hell, some of it's institutionalized now to the point where taking offense to a stereotype opens one up to ridicule for being too sensitive.

As much white on white hatred as there's been, it's no wonder there's still vestigal tribalism left.

[Captain LeBubbles]

I'm a little bit curious about the person who selected "I'd rather not say". If it wasn't intended in jest (there's always one), would you mind telling us why you chose it? Not that I think you shouldn't have, after all, the internet grants anonymity where face-to-face communication doesn't, I'm just curious about what led to the decision in the first place.

And if you'd rather not, then, erm, I guess just ignore me and, er, we can all move on. Or something.

[Muttley]

Most of the distinctions you have all commented on or laid claim to are ethnic and not racial. Irish, for instance, is an ethnic group whereas "black" (or African-american or whatever other weasel-words your conscience requires) is a racial group.

Unfortunately the whole concept of distinct "races" is based on some very dodgy 18th and 19th century European philosophy in the first place, and there is no rigor to fall back on.

Racial distinctions and racism narrow down pretty quickly to "someone who doesn't look like us" for some slippery concept of "us". Or, to put it another way, tribalism.

It's so limited, primitive and self-defeating that anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together shouldn't be fooled. Unfortunately the tribal leaders keep themselves in power by inventing enemies, and obvious targets are easy meat.

[Bardlp]

In a certain town I used to live in in Minnesota about five years ago I had racist slurs for Mexicans, Natives, Jews, Asians and Gypsies yelled at me from moving vehicles and (most oddly) once by children. Nobody ever used a slur that was technically accurate on me. I find the whole thing odd, because I'm several flavors of northern European and look it. I guess I'm offended on behalf of the peoples I was confused for, but how do you even address somebody being racist at you? I'd be equally flummoxed if somebody actually got it right and called me a cracker. How do you respond to personal racism in a way that's constructive?

[Valerie]

In a certain town I used to live in in Minnesota about five years ago I had racist slurs for Mexicans, Natives, Jews, Asians and Gypsies yelled at me from moving vehicles and (most oddly) once by children. Nobody ever used a slur that was technically accurate on me. I find the whole thing odd, because I'm several flavors of northern European and look it. I guess I'm offended on behalf of the peoples I was confused for, but how do you even address somebody being racist at you? I'd be equally flummoxed if somebody actually got it right and called me a cracker. How do you respond to personal racism in a way that's constructive?

"You're just jealous that I [positive stereotype for that group]," maybe?
Kind of a silly way to dismiss what they said. But it might encourage them to continue...
I guess I wouldn't really know. I can't recall ever being discriminated against for my race, except playfully. (My cousin, my husband, my father and I were all working on the house. My dad left to take a break. My cousin's response was, "Wha-- he just left two white girls and a cripple to do all this!") (The race part being that white people are generally not considered as physically strong as black people.)

[Trefle]

Asian; Chinese (as ethnicity) and not in America...so that would mean I'm part of the majority already, no?

No.

Within my country we are considered part of the minority; best being part of the diversity that is our home country, worst being 'immigrants' without 'loyalty' to the country. Which, I am, but that's not due to my ethnicity or anything. Sexuality.

Even worse is that a lot of us are pretty high in the class hierarchy (a.k.a pretty rich. I'm pretty comfortable atm as far as my parents' money are concerned, and I acknowledge the privilege I got, not to mention the difference in experience. I found out that here; it is those who are already comfortable, financial wise, who can take their time and think about social issues; but that's not here or there so carry on.) so...add class differences on that.

And we also have what people would call reverse racism; so it's not exactly one-sided. Quite a lot of people in my side (especially conservatives, which is a lot) tend to get really.......oi, sometimes. It actually bloomed into a riot about 13 years ago, and people were still traumatic about it, especially people from my ethnicity.

I don't know how prevalent ethnic loyalties goes in the US, in here it's quite prevalent. The idea that 'oh, he's my ethnicity; he will be safer to go with compared to him.
To think about it; the stereotypes are like stereotypes of whites and blacks in the US, as well; only mixed. From their side, We are pompous rich heathen immigrants who should just go back to China, while from our side,-they- are idiot savages who, by default, will rob you steal you and hit you and rape you/your daughter/your wife only because you're different and they are OBVIOUSLY LESSER. Only they are the majority.

Face. Palm.

I'm sure behavior, as bad as they are, are not to be judged by the basis of their skin color and/or ethnicity. The interweaving class discrepancy and a lot of things...would make it a more complex problem. I still make that leap of logic sometimes, and that's not good for me.

[Valerie]

Trefle, may I ask what country you live in?