[Off-Topic] [Edited title] Julia Maddera on Patriarchy

[Artemisia]

It is very complicated. Technically I am either transsexual or intersexual. I am undergoing sex reassignment. I appear to have been born with certain abnormalities common to someone with klinefelters- which is where an individual has three sex chromosomes- usually XXY. I just cannot afford the testing to find out. My natural estrogen levels are higher than they should be for someone who is physically male. However, because of my inflamed bowels, my body doesn't absorb enough of the additional estrogen to adequately elevate my estrogen level to normal. Physically, I have very broad hips, a narrower waist, and a very female voice.

I identify as female, and always have. Compared to most people undergoing sex reassignment, I do not manifest most of the same gender identity conflict cues that others do. Growing up, I was always very femme, and even though I played with 'boy's toys' I always latched on to the women in those. So, I grew up wanting to be like Princess Leia or like Scarlet from GIJoe. I never really had a male identity or persona, and never pretended to be male. In fact, the struggle for me wasn't that I was female, but that it was possible for me to transition and be a lesbian.

At the age of seven, I remember being so baffled by the fact that the other girls around me had this little line between their legs, which seemed to me to be what I should have, and I tried to correct the problem by attempting to remove what was not normal for me from my body. Had my parents not arrived about three minutes too soon, I would have done it. Of course, that would have created problems further down the line, and I could have died, but it didn't stop the attempts to hurt my genitals over the years.

The trans women on the forum have far more typical stories. I don't think of myself as trans because I just do not have that mind set. To me, I'm correcting what is wrong not creating this identity that bridges male and female. A lot of transgender people feel this need to be somewhere in between, but I don't, and I hate that I get shoved in that direction. I have had people push me to write about trans issues or to teach creative writing to trans people assuming that I understand the issues and can work with people on them when, in reality, I just cannot manage to understand the trans people I talk to. I do a pretty good job of faking it, but really, I often find myself being unable to grasp their issues.

By and large, I just consider myself to be a woman with a deformity, even though I keep getting told that I shouldn't think like that.

[Freemage]

Artemesia: If you're not reading Natalie Reed's column, you should--she's all about trans people having the right to decide for themselves where they might fall on a spectrum of gender-identity, be it 'someplace in the middle' or 'always been a woman, always will be' (she's also lesbian, so can at least appreciate where you're coming from on that side of things). I imagine her blog's comment section would benefit from your insights, too.

One other little thing, Val (and note, this is not a critique, just a thing I picked up because I happened to be reading these blogs for awhile, now)--instead of "biological gender" or "birth gender", Natalie and several other trans people seem to prefer "Assigned [male/female] at birth", often reduced to AMAB and AFAB. The idea there is that they ARE "true" women or men, and have been since day one (much like Artemesia describes herself feeling, actually), but were misidentified at birth, and so the wrong entry was made on their birth certificate.

[Artemisia]

Freemage,

I did read it. I just have been down this road several times and would like to not get into it again. There are a lot of trans women out there who push the in-between view that I was more concerned about the discussion here than anything else. I also get so tired of the constant cleaving off of feminism into smaller and smaller pieces. It makes it so hard to present a united front against those who seek to take away our rights. I feel that, also, every time we divide up feminism into these little pieces, we lose that common connection between us.

I hope that makes sense.

When I have tried to discuss this whole dynamic in the past, I've usually been harassed and punished for speaking out and viewing myself as a woman from birth. I should probably realize that isn't going to happen here, but sometimes I just react without thinking.

[Freemage]

Freemage,

I did read it. I just have been down this road several times and would like to not get into it again. There are a lot of trans women out there who push the in-between view that I was more concerned about the discussion here than anything else. I also get so tired of the constant cleaving off of feminism into smaller and smaller pieces. It makes it so hard to present a united front against those who seek to take away our rights. I feel that, also, every time we divide up feminism into these little pieces, we lose that common connection between us.

I hope that makes sense.

When I have tried to discuss this whole dynamic in the past, I've usually been harassed and punished for speaking out and viewing myself as a woman from birth. I should probably realize that isn't going to happen here, but sometimes I just react without thinking.

Hey, your comfort level comes first, absolutely. Sorry if I applied unwanted pressure.

[Artemisia]

Thank you, Freemage. I don't think that a lot of people realize just how vicious the internal wars can be within any given 'designation.' I'm kind of caught between a lot of the factions. There are lesbians who will never see me as a true woman because I was born with male genitalia, and a lot of trans women out there who think that I should have suffered and should be somewhere in between male and female. It's a lot of why I feel so sensitive about a lot of this.

[Valerie]

One other little thing, Val (and note, this is not a critique, just a thing I picked up because I happened to be reading these blogs for awhile, now)--instead of "biological gender" or "birth gender", Natalie and several other trans people seem to prefer "Assigned [male/female] at birth", often reduced to AMAB and AFAB. The idea there is that they ARE "true" women or men, and have been since day one (much like Artemesia describes herself feeling, actually), but were misidentified at birth, and so the wrong entry was made on their birth certificate.

Oh. That makes sense. I'll try to keep that in mind. Thank you. <3

[Lia S]

Okay, so in one place I get told one isn't trans when one never attempted self-surgery as a kid, and now here Artemisia sort of tells us she doesn't consider herself trans because she did. And that's just one more example of nobody agreeing what the word means. Of course the same kind of problem exists with the word feminism, so I doubt it's very useful to put the two words together.

I think gender shouldn't matter. And neither should linguistics while it still does.

[Artemisia]

Lia,

I don't think of myself as trans for a lot of reasons, my attempted mutilations are not part of that reason. Whether or not you are trans is up to you. I'm more intersexed than trans. Each of us has our own paths, and it has always frustrated me that I get shoved into a category or told I can't be something because of their standard definitions.

My doctors have agreed that I show indications of being intersexed. I just can't afford to find out fully. There are a lot of people who are transsexual who are also intersexual.

Lia, part of this is the battle between the trans-identity and the trans-disorder. I have a medical condition that is transsexuality, but I don't see that as part of my identity. I'm not a trans woman, I'm just a woman. I honestly think that transsexuality should be considered a medical problem like intersexuality and anyone who wants that trans-identity be considered transgender.

[Lia S]

I don't think of myself as trans for a lot of reasons, my attempted mutilations are not part of that reason. Whether or not you are trans is up to you. I'm more intersexed than trans. Each of us has our own paths, and it has always frustrated me that I get shoved into a category or told I can't be something because of their standard definitions.

Sorry I didn't put that very well. What I meant is that it seems to me that your strong dysphoria is part of your reason not to identify as trans. Also, it makes you more similar to what I'm told is "typical" than me, but you say the others (which would then include me) are more typical than you... I guess we're all different and there is no point in saying one person is more typical than the other.

Lia, part of this is the battle between the trans-identity and the trans-disorder. I have a medical condition that is transsexuality, but I don't see that as part of my identity. I'm not a trans woman, I'm just a woman. I honestly think that transsexuality should be considered a medical problem like intersexuality and anyone who wants that trans-identity be considered transgender.

I agree, and I also would rather be called a woman than a trans woman. Trans only is part of my identity in the sense that I am a person with that medical condition. I know I've said different things in the past, like my femininity/masculinity depending on context, it has been (and I guess still is) difficult to separate nature from nurture, and to separate gender role issues from physical issues.

The idea that my body has to be changed for me to be allowed into certain roles offends me because it is so patriarchical (hey, look, we're back on topic!) and that has made it difficult to figure out what to do about my dysphoria.

It's like having a problem with authority and being told "have fun!" by an authority figure. Of course the solution is to ignore what authority/patriarchy says and do what you want, rather than assuming the opposite must be the right thing to do.

[Artemisia]

It's ok, Lia. There's a lot of back and forth, and a lot of it is not very nice, and a lot of people are very, well, prejudiced inside the community.

[Mr. Brightside]

Okay, so in one place I get told one isn't trans when one never attempted self-surgery as a kid...

Who said that?! If nothing else - nothing else - even a child must realize she'd likely bleed out...

[Artemisia]

Okay, so in one place I get told one isn't trans when one never attempted self-surgery as a kid...

Who said that?! If nothing else - nothing else - even a child must realize she'd likely bleed out...

Um...not really. Not if the pain from not looking normal physically is so great that she doesn't care if she dies or not.

I tried to mutilate myself at the age of seven. I didn't really care if I lived or not. After I failed in that attempt, I created my "brother" to take over for me when I had to be male.

[Valerie]

*hugs for Art and Lia* I will never truly understand what this is like. The closest I can get it the typical "my nose is too big" schtick that most women deal with. Trans/intersexed people are most of the reason I started the acronym thread. I understand the concept-- a person is born with something that feels wrong and wants to have it fixed (or even just acknowledged)-- but there are so many details that I don't know, such as the (apparently common) belief that you have to attempt genital mutilation to be trans. That seems like an unfair requirement, though I can definitely understand how it's related to being trans.

And Lia, as far as I'm concerned, your body can look like a jellyfish. That will not take away your right to be as feminine/masculine/between as you want. It's sad that so many people think there are biological requirements to being feminine or masculine, even in this day and age, when we have male fashion designers and chefs and female scientists and politicians. We should know better than to shove each other into these boxes by now.

[Artemisia]

Well, a lot of people don't necessarily understand the differences in generation when it comes to the issue of gender dysphoria. Lia is, if I have this right, twenty years my junior, and she's Dutch. I don't know if she had to deal with the gender rigidity that I did.

I literally had to create a second personality in order to survive and not mutilate myself.

[Lia S]

@Valerie: I read "We should know better than to shove each other into these boxers by now."

Well, a lot of people don't necessarily understand the differences in generation when it comes to the issue of gender dysphoria. Lia is, if I have this right, twenty years my junior, and she's Dutch. I don't know if she had to deal with the gender rigidity that I did.

I literally had to create a second personality in order to survive and not mutilate myself.

When I was a kid, other people were like a different species to me. Try choosing between the gender roles of peacocks... either you have to lay eggs, or you have to have big feathers sticking out of your rear. I can't answer your question from my own experience, but there still are people who have to deal with the same kind of rigidity but also a growing number has it much "easier".