[6 April 2012] It will no doubt be tomorrow's meme.

[Black Cat Godess]

I don't care if it's Naty, Bud, Miller, or a microbrew. I have never liked beer. I don't care if it's port, red, burgundy, or white, I've never liked wine. The only alcohol I've been able to stand have been a couple of mixed drinks, one sparkling white wine, and a fruit beer that most people would argue is not beer at all. If any of that is an acquired taste, I don't want to acquire it. Same for coffee. Don't try and tell me the best part is picking out the subtle flavors either. If you're gonna give me something that's supposed to have chocolate notes in it, of better taste like chocolate!

Power to those who like it, though. I'm gonna stick with my Pepsi Throwback, if you don't mind.

[Valerie]

I don't care if it's Naty, Bud, Miller, or a microbrew. I have never liked beer. I don't care if it's port, red, burgundy, or white, I've never liked wine. The only alcohol I've been able to stand have been a couple of mixed drinks, one sparkling white wine, and a fruit beer that most people would argue is not beer at all. If any of that is an acquired taste, I don't want to acquire it. Same for coffee. Don't try and tell me the best part is picking out the subtle flavors either. If you're gonna give me something that's supposed to have chocolate notes in it, of better taste like chocolate!

Power to those who like it, though. I'm gonna stick with my Pepsi Throwback, if you don't mind.

grl plz. Gotta get'chu some muthafuckin' Jones soda.
I actually love Pepsi, I just super-love Jones cream soda.

[Fen]

Also, five pages of beer, guys? I know we all fit the "misunderstood genius" stereotype, but there's a little too much love for booze here.

Technically most of the posts are anti-beer, anti-taste of beer, meh-about-beer or american-beer-sucks anyway.

To redeem this thread, I will mention that I've loved beer since I was 5 and I always will <3

[Valerie]

Also, five pages of beer, guys? I know we all fit the "misunderstood genius" stereotype, but there's a little too much love for booze here.

Technically most of the posts are anti-beer, anti-taste of beer, meh-about-beer or american-beer-sucks anyway.

To redeem this thread, I will mention that I've loved beer since I was 5 and I always will <3

Haha, five? When's the legal drinking age in Romania?

[Fen]

technically 18, but most people pick it up around highschool. (we're reaaaallly laid back when it comes to legal age limits).

I used to live with my grandparents, and my grandpa's a bit of an alcoholic (the jolly kind who drinks a lot, not that kind of alcoholic). I would always sip from my grandma's coffee and my grandpa would let me sneak in a sip from his beer head. Made me feel like a grown up and all. . It's a fond memory of beer so it counts.

Interestingly enough i had my first beer when I was about 9 or 10, but that was mostly a teacher who really wanted to frame me. Basically bullied me into getting one since "that's the grownup thing to do" and immediately called my mom to tell her about my budding alcoholism.

[phagocyte]

\
Interestingly enough i had my first beer when I was about 9 or 10, but that was mostly a teacher who really wanted to frame me

capital W T F. Why on earth would they harass you like that?? That's terrible

And joining in my 2 booze cents to say that I hated beer until i started appreciating local, hoppy brews and guiness. but scotch and whiskey, straight up, is where it's at.

[Trefle]

This is very, very much a new thing. So there are THAT MANY beers, and THAT MANY differences....
And Fen; five? That's..quite amazing. *laughs* did the teacher's plan succeeded? Why would he do that? o_O;
Welcome too, to Kensou.

[Muttley]

Beer flavours combine hoppy, malty, yeasty, fruity, sweet, bitter, sour and dry elements and vary in carbonation from almost still to champagne-cork fizzy. Colours vary from pale straw to pitch black via golden, red and brown.

Michael Jackson (no, not that one) made a short series of programs called "The Beer Hunter" on BBC. Clips turn up on YouTube and his website is a good introduction to the vast range of beers throughout the world.

http://www.beerhunter.com/index-new.html

[sgtrock]

Beer flavours combine hoppy, malty, yeasty, fruity, sweet, bitter, sour and dry elements and vary in carbonation from almost still to champagne-cork fizzy. Colours vary from pale straw to pitch black via golden, red and brown.

Michael Jackson (no, not that one) made a short series of programs called "The Beer Hunter" on BBC. Clips turn up on YouTube and his website is a good introduction to the vast range of beers throughout the world.

http://www.beerhunter.com/index-new.html

Wow. I've never heard of this guy until now, and I find out he passed away 5 years ago?

Now, here's a really funny/strange coincidence that ties right back to this thread. Choosing links at random from his site to the memorial site set up after his death, to some article or another, to YouTube, I stumbled across "The Beer Hunter and the cabbie." It starts with the cabbie saying that it was getting tough to find good beer in his area of London. He complains that all that's available locally is lager and 'chemical'(?) beer.

Jump to the 1:15 mark. You'll see the BH mention American IPAs with approval. At the 2:00 mark, he gives the cabbie three beers as examples of good beers still being brewed.

Here's the real kicker: TWO of the three are American!

[Otaking]

I resemble a teetotaler more than a drinker, unless she's hot, but no really I miss the after work scene in pubs with my Irish friends in CA. Now that I'm in Texas I'm lucky to be able to order a Guinness and I generally have to go to a 'high-end' bar for that. Anheuser-Busch can rot in Hell. I like a good red or especially a Sangria with a fine dinner occasionally. I'm never quite sure if a Sangria is a chick drink or something Al Pacino in the Devil's Advocate/Dos Equis guy would drink. Oh well I'll keep drinking them.

Some of those IPAs do look nice though, but too many rules about when, where, and with whom I'll drink to ever try em. I do order a Black and Tan a lot which is Guinness half poured, then Bass but I bet some of those IPA would go even better there.

I won't drink alone and most of my evenings out are to the hospital. Yeah boo hoo fml and stuff, next.

[Otaking]

In fact a lot of times the after work scene really started at lunch and made 12-5 on a corporate Wednesday technicolorfully bearable. Especially in pubs that had ale of the month clubs etc.

These two are awesome and generally full of cool people and staff:

http://sf-mc.org/2010/02/eddie-rickenbackers/

http://www.hopyard.com/index.html

When I wanted to feel even more out of place than usual and stare down tough guys with my metrosexually powered billion byte stare I'd go here:

http://zeitgeistsf.com/

[Muttley]

Sgt. Rock wrote

Wow. I've never heard of this guy until now, and I find out he passed away 5 years ago?

Frank - may I call you Frank? - no, I thought not. . .

Sergeant,

That's a more recent clip than his BBC series, and he's showing signs of the Parkinsons' that contributed to his early demise.

Now, here's a really funny/strange coincidence that ties right back to this thread. Choosing links at random from his site to the memorial site set up after his death, to some article or another, to YouTube, I stumbled across "The Beer Hunter and the cabbie." It starts with the cabbie saying that it was getting tough to find good beer in his area of London. He complains that all that's available locally is lager and 'chemical'(?) beer.

By "chemical" the cabbie is denigrating the pasteurised "keg" beer that threatened to wipe out traditional, "Real Ale", brews in the UK, leading to the formation of CAMRA, the Campaign for Real Ale, that was instrumental in waking up the public to what they were losing.

aside: "keg" beer is distributed in metal kegs and dispensed by gas pressure at the bar. It was originally developed as a means to allow brewers to sell to outlets that had low throughput and no permanent staff to maintain the equipment - things that are vital if you're selling a live beer. Keg beer is pasteurised before being packaged in the metal keg.

The development of the keg process was so costly that the industry had to find a way of recouping the cost, something that could not be done if the sales were restricted to low-volume outlets. So they started advertising campaigns to get the public to ask for it, and sold it to the publicans by showing how it made their lives easier.

The Power Of Advertising made this a runaway success, and once the brewers had made an investment in kegs and the process it was cheaper than traditional methods, and much easier to industrialise. (This is one of the reasons I despise Advertising). So, in a very short time smaller brewers were going to the wall as they couldn't make the investment in the keg process and keg beer had displaced cask beer in the marketplace.

It differs fundamentally from Real Ale, which is put into wooden barrels while it is still brewing, containing yeast to make sure it carries on that way. Real Ale is not fit to drink until the barrel has been on the rack for a day or so to allow the yeast to settle and the brewing process to finish off. It is then tapped, and dispensed by hand pump, in jugs or direct from the barrel behind the bar into the glass.

It is a fresh, live product, naturally carbonated, still in the process of fermenting, and the flavours cannot be reproduced in any other way.

Further aside: when T was in the UK we went to one of my favourite Real Ale pubs, the Blue Ship, for lunch.

http://www.theblueship.co.uk/

He had soft drinks. I can say with some confidence that T is not a beer fan.


Jump to the 1:15 mark. You'll see the BH mention American IPAs with approval. At the 2:00 mark, he gives the cabbie three beers as examples of good beers still being brewed.

Here's the real kicker: TWO of the three are American!

Notice also that he mentions that the Malheer is like Hopback Summer Lightning? I'll agree, and also say that for me, Summer Lightning was the payoff to a long career of always tasting the beer that I'd never heard of before. Summer Lightning is a hoppy bitter, yet (on cask) never feels bitter - the combination of flavours is balanced so well. The bottled product doesn't reproduce the fresh flavour of the cask beer at all.

He was a big fan of American craft breweries, and the sixth and last episode of "The Beer Hunter" is based in America.

He was also a good writer and communicator, credited with re-awakening public interest in the flavour of beer rather than its effect, and so by extension the craft of brewing as opposed to the business of selling beer. His earlier writings apparantly had a great effect on the American craft brewing movement, so it's not really a surprise that he had some in his cellar.

[Bobolink]

I well remember my first beer at college in 1965. I was 18 and the legal age in Ontario was 21(it is now 19). It was Carling Brading Ale a brand no longer sold. I thought it was revolting but it became my beer of choice.

[NobodySpecial]

credited with re-awakening public interest in the flavour of beer rather than its effect

This is the key to why most mass produced American beers are junk - most Americans I know don't care about how something tastes, they care only about getting trashed with the quickness at a cheap price. It's odd, because then they gravitate towards stuff that's weak as anything, like Bud Light. The power of marketing, I guess.

On the other hand, the worst beer in the world is still better than crap like Blast or Four Loko.

[Freemage]

Can I just chime in here as a long time beer drinker? Have you ever noticed that the split between beer lovers and haters is largely gender specific? This thread is a pretty good indicator of that. More than half of the people who have responded that they don't like beer are women, while the beer lovers are more than half men. While I've observed this for several decades, I've never seen a good explanation of it. A female acquaintance of mine back when I was still a sailor put it down to the fact that men are inherently idiots, so OF COURSE we'd prefer to drink swill.

Also, those who think that American beer is all terrible simply hasn't visited a liquor store here in a very long time. I think the variety and quality stacks up against the best beer anywhere else in the world.

While there's been a good selection available since the Germans and Belgians first emigrated here in the mid 1800s, Prohibition put a damper on things until about the 1970s. After that, though, there's always been a pretty decent selection here for those who were willing to look. Heck, even Walmart carries a decent selection these days.

A very, very small sampler of American brews that I really like:

I will concur that American craft brews stack up against the international scene quite nicely. However, that's not really what people are talking about when they reference "American beer" (as in, "How is American beer like making love in a canoe? They're both fucking close to water!").

Rather, they're talking about the mass-market beers--Budweiser, Miller and so forth. It's the convenience-store comparison, not the 'specialty liquor store' comparison. Walk into a convenience-type store in both countries. Pick a brand largely at random, buy and drink. I can guarantee that 9 times out of 10, you'll have a happier look on your face after the test in Germany or Ireland than you will in America.

I can walk into any liquor store in Minnesota, whether mom and pop run, municipal owned, chain, attached to a grocery store, anywhere that has a liquor license and find a selection of decent brews. (I don't think gas stations can sell booze here, so your basic convenience store doesn't have beer or wine.)

Besides, Walmart's not a convenience store???? Kidding. Sort of. But when Walmart starts selling craft beer, I contend that decent beer has gone mainstream in a HUGE way. It's way past time to drop this tired old meme.

When Americans stop drinking the swill so abundantly, I might.

Top Beers by Brand 2010:

Bud Light (unchanged from 2009) – 28.5% market share
Budweiser (unchanged from 2009) – 11.4% market share
Coors Light (unchanged from 2009) – 10.2% market share
Miller Lite (unchanged from 2009) – 9.1% market share
Natural Light (unchanged from 2009) – 6.0% market share
Busch Light (up from #7 in 2009) – 4.0% market share
Busch (up from #8 in 2009) – 3.6% market share
Miller High Life (up from #10 in 2009) – 2.7% market share
Keystone Light (not listed in 2009) – 2.6% market share
Natural Ice (not listed in 2009) – 1.9% market share

That list counts for 75% of all beer sold in America in 2010, and it's all piss. That's what I'm getting at--in Germany, the randomly selected beer in a convenience store will still be a GOOD beer, especially by American standards. In America, you may have better than the above available, but you must know to look for it, first. (Oh, and Annheiser-Busch, for the record, owns over half the beer business in the US.) Germany also has a far more varied market in general--if the top ~8~ German beer companies were to suddenly merge, they would still have a smaller share of their domestic market than A-B does in the U.S.