Helen in S*P

[Trefle]

T addressed this once and mentioned that the characters of Something Positive aren't as tough as you might think and if a master manipulator like Cyndi could find weaknesses she could hurt them, but whatever this whole thing could easily turn into a Batman vs. Superman debate and my answer is always "it depends on who's writing the story."

I do agreed, if we're talking about it seriously.
Even for all that's worth; Davan and co. might play rough, quick, and witty; but once Cyndi -know- that.....10 bucks she's going to surpass them in every way.
On the hands of RKM, Cyndi might be a force only Avagadro can beat. Barely. *SHIVERS*

[Adrishiana]

She'd be a natural for working at the DMV maybe.

The DMV is staffed with people who make other people lose their tempers so how would she be a natural working there? It's a good career path for people who want to make other people miserable, but then again she could do better working for the IRS.

And Adrishiana what's so wrong about confronting people about misleading coupons? If you don't stand up for yourself about that they'll walk all over you.

Wow, late.

Anyway, there's nothing at all wrong with confronting people about misleading coupons... if they're actually misleading. Unfortunately, in my experience, "misleading" was usually used as a synonym for "this coupon doesn't work the way I want it to (optional but common: "even though it specifically says how it does work and that's not how I want it to")."

[TCampbell]

T addressed this once and mentioned that the characters of Something Positive aren't as tough as you might think and if a master manipulator like Cyndi could find weaknesses she could hurt them, but whatever this whole thing could easily turn into a Batman vs. Superman debate and my answer is always "it depends on who's writing the story."

I do agreed, if we're talking about it seriously.
Even for all that's worth; Davan and co. might play rough, quick, and witty; but once Cyndi -know- that.....10 bucks she's going to surpass them in every way.
On the hands of RKM, Cyndi might be a force only Avagadro can beat. Barely. *SHIVERS*

Avagadro? Seriously? What, because he outwitted Kharisma?

It does depend on who's writing it, for sure, but in my view, the S*P cast's best defense against a real monster like that is their friendships. Viewed individually, most of them seem like they should've slipped into bitter, miserable wastes by now, and the remainder sometimes seem a bit naive. But that's why they have each other, and why they work. And there are certain things about friendship that Cyndi, for all her insight, will never fully process. You'd need a heart to do that.

[Freemage]

T addressed this once and mentioned that the characters of Something Positive aren't as tough as you might think and if a master manipulator like Cyndi could find weaknesses she could hurt them, but whatever this whole thing could easily turn into a Batman vs. Superman debate and my answer is always "it depends on who's writing the story."

I do agreed, if we're talking about it seriously.
Even for all that's worth; Davan and co. might play rough, quick, and witty; but once Cyndi -know- that.....10 bucks she's going to surpass them in every way.
On the hands of RKM, Cyndi might be a force only Avagadro can beat. Barely. *SHIVERS*

Avagadro? Seriously? What, because he outwitted Kharisma?

It does depend on who's writing it, for sure, but in my view, the S*P cast's best defense against a real monster like that is their friendships. Viewed individually, most of them seem like they should've slipped into bitter, miserable wastes by now, and the remainder sometimes seem a bit naive. But that's why they have each other, and why they work. And there are certain things about friendship that Cyndi, for all her insight, will never fully process. You'd need a heart to do that.

The other key difference between the S*P cast and the P&A crew is that Cyndi would literally not get a second chance--she might sabotage one life, but as soon as that happened, the jig would be up. Even if her target was one of the characters the others find irritating (Mike, for instance), the reaction to a threat would be to mobilize in force and with no quarter taken or offered. Cyndi's remains would simply be fed to a trapdoor alligator, and that would be the end of it.

Hell, even if Cyndi encountered Kharisma on the road, and tried to manipulate her into committing more crimes, Fluffmodeous would just get jealous and have Kharisma strangle Cyndi in her sleep.

[Trefle]

Avagadro? Seriously? What, because he outwitted Kharisma?

NO.
More like because he doesn't seem to have the sorts of weaknesses Cyndi tend to exploit (other people they care about; idealism; sense of guilt and/or regret and/or shame over past experiences in life; basically, a sense of -good-).
That, and as Kharisma had sadly tried; even some methods of direct murder doesn't really affect him. (dead) Old guy is tough.
I'm not talking about outwitting; more like -surviving-. I'm sure Cyndi could even spin the most disadvantageous situation and/or position to her advantage (even her situation with Charlotte are thisclose, wasn't it).

Granted; she could just walk away and find another target. Or manipulate someone else to do the job, if push comes to play. I totally can see her doing it.

...It's scary. You're really creating a sociopath, aren't you, T? *shivers again*
(I wasn't here when Missing Person arc happened, so I might miss the depth and extent of Cyndi's monstrosity. Apologize for any belittling remarks I might have sprouted.)

It does depend on who's writing it, for sure, but in my view, the S*P cast's best defense against a real monster like that is their friendships. Viewed individually, most of them seem like they should've slipped into bitter, miserable wastes by now, and the remainder sometimes seem a bit naive. But that's why they have each other, and why they work. And there are certain things about friendship that Cyndi, for all her insight, will never fully process. You'd need a heart to do that.

I wholeheartedly agree; with Freemage's words too. If taking this matter seriously, I'm pretty sure Davan and co. have bigger chance to see the warning siren blinking from far, far away, as far as monsters like Cyndi are concerned.

And to tie it with the topic, I think it's that sense, feeling, and understanding of related camaraderie and very close friendship that Helen lacks, and doesn't understand yet? So far her most meaningful relationship has been with Nancy only. I can only hope by the time of Six Septembers Later; she'd have known and learned close, non-parasitic friendships -- and opening herself to it, too.

[brasca]

T addressed this once and mentioned that the characters of Something Positive aren't as tough as you might think and if a master manipulator like Cyndi could find weaknesses she could hurt them, but whatever this whole thing could easily turn into a Batman vs. Superman debate and my answer is always "it depends on who's writing the story."

I do agreed, if we're talking about it seriously.
Even for all that's worth; Davan and co. might play rough, quick, and witty; but once Cyndi -know- that.....10 bucks she's going to surpass them in every way.
On the hands of RKM, Cyndi might be a force only Avagadro can beat. Barely. *SHIVERS*

Avagadro? Seriously? What, because he outwitted Kharisma?

If he wasn't dead I'd consider him a possible love interest for Cyndi. Yes, he was a grotesque evil old man, but Cyndi was looking for someone as soulless as her and with a penchant for hurting people for fun. That might be enough to overcome the superficiality of looks. It's a moot point since he's dead and in Hell, but if Silas could be reborn for being so obnoxious then it's possible Avagadro could be reborn too. The age difference would be reversed, but not as wide.

[Alice Macher]

If he wasn't dead I'd consider him a possible love interest for Cyndi. Yes, he was a grotesque evil old man, but Cyndi was looking for someone as soulless as her and with a penchant for hurting people for fun. That might be enough to overcome the superficiality of looks. It's a moot point since he's dead and in Hell, but if Silas could be reborn for being so obnoxious then it's possible Avagadro could be reborn too. The age difference would be reversed, but not as wide.

The last time this topic came up, I suggested his nephew Ollie as such a love interest. Not only does he have in common with Cyndi the longtime use of obfuscating stupidity, but in his most recent appearance he showed evidence of having become just as heartless and gratuitously cruel as Avagadro. (Since someone objected to this the last time I brought it up: I'm not talking about his shutting down a bakery he'd financed for not turning a profit, but his follow-up instruction to his personal assistant that the baker's apartment be bought so that he can bulldoze it.) Plus, Ollie has the advantage of being, while not a young adult like Cyndi, at least rather closer in age to her than his uncle was.

[brasca]

If he wasn't dead I'd consider him a possible love interest for Cyndi. Yes, he was a grotesque evil old man, but Cyndi was looking for someone as soulless as her and with a penchant for hurting people for fun. That might be enough to overcome the superficiality of looks. It's a moot point since he's dead and in Hell, but if Silas could be reborn for being so obnoxious then it's possible Avagadro could be reborn too. The age difference would be reversed, but not as wide.

The last time this topic came up, I suggested his nephew Ollie as such a love interest. Not only does he have in common with Cyndi the longtime use of obfuscating stupidity, but in his most recent appearance he showed evidence of having become just as heartless and gratuitously cruel as Avagadro. (Since someone objected to this the last time I brought it up: I'm not talking about his shutting down a bakery he'd financed for not turning a profit, but his follow-up instruction to his personal assistant that the baker's apartment be bought so that he can bulldoze it.) Plus, Ollie has the advantage of being, while not a young adult like Cyndi, at least rather closer in age to her than his uncle was.

Possibly, but Cyndi strikes me as the type who can't help herself in exploiting a weakness. Years of alleged physical abuse from his parents followed by years of sexual and emotional abuse probably created a lot of cracks in his psyche that sooner or later work away at until he broke. It's the same reason why a hypothetical relationship with the Fans-verse Cyndi and Keith Feddyg wouldn't work.

This might be too far off topic, but I think Ollie killed Avagadro and pinned it on Kharisma. As for wanting her back I think it's just a ruse so he can get rid of her too. What do you think?

[Alice Macher]

Possibly, but Cyndi strikes me as the type who can't help herself in exploiting a weakness. Years of alleged physical abuse from his parents followed by years of sexual and emotional abuse probably created a lot of cracks in his psyche that sooner or later work away at until he broke. It's the same reason why a hypothetical relationship with the Fans-verse Cyndi and Keith Feddyg wouldn't work.

You're right that, as far as we know, Cyndi was born the way she is (nature) whereas Ollie became the way he is through abuse (nurture). But I'm not sure that's relevant, now that they're in very similar places (well, Ollie hasn't kept a diary expressing the desire to lead people to suicide , although destroying a man's livelihood and home in rapid succession, for no other reason than lulz, is in the neighbourhood). Unless you're suggesting that because Ollie wasn't born without a conscience, there's still the possibility of his regaining it, whereas for Cyndi there is (barring some sort of major medical breakthrough) no possibility of that, and that it's possible if this were put to the test, a remorseful or repentant Ollie would become loathsome to Cyndi and vice versa. I could see that.

This might be too far off topic, but I think Ollie killed Avagadro and pinned it on Kharisma. As for wanting her back I think it's just a ruse so he can get rid of her too. What do you think?

I think we don't have enough information to go on, there. Again, Ollie's never explicitly shown the desire to kill anyone.

[brasca]

Possibly, but Cyndi strikes me as the type who can't help herself in exploiting a weakness. Years of alleged physical abuse from his parents followed by years of sexual and emotional abuse probably created a lot of cracks in his psyche that sooner or later work away at until he broke. It's the same reason why a hypothetical relationship with the Fans-verse Cyndi and Keith Feddyg wouldn't work.

You're right that, as far as we know, Cyndi was born the way she is (nature) whereas Ollie became the way he is through abuse (nurture). But I'm not sure that's relevant, now that they're in very similar places (well, Ollie hasn't kept a diary expressing the desire to lead people to suicide , although destroying a man's livelihood and home in rapid succession, for no other reason than lulz, is in the neighbourhood). Unless you're suggesting that because Ollie wasn't born without a conscience, there's still the possibility of his regaining it, whereas for Cyndi there is (barring some sort of major medical breakthrough) no possibility of that, and that it's possible if this were put to the test, a remorseful or repentant Ollie would become loathsome to Cyndi and vice versa. I could see that.

From what we know Cyndi has never had a conscience and as such her only known weakness is the inability to understand love. In other words a hotter Muggle Voldemort. It's possible that Ollie or Feddyg are not completely beyond redemption and might actually feel bad about the things they do which might make the unsuitable matches, but what I'm referring to is Cyndi exploiting weaknesses. Maybe she could love (or whatever she considers a substitute for it) someone with a lot of damage and refrain from undermining them because it would be better to have someone who is an imperfect sociopath as her partner than none, or she could exploit the history of abuse like twisting a knife as she did with Charlotte for no other reason than a compulsion. Perhaps she might leave the mental institution she's at with the lesson that she needs to practice some restraint to avoid future mishaps. If so then she could be a good match for Ollie and as a couple potentially eclipse Aubrey and Jason as the most dangerous couple in Boston.

[retrophrenologist]

Now if Cyndi got released and got a job at Nerdotica...

Dead. 2 weeks of work. By Aubrey. For murdering about half of the customers, two workmates, and probably three unknown people, and applying makeup in front of the computer. Quick smash in the head, or slow, torturous stabbing with rusty nails. ACIDIC rusty nails.

I don't think she'd get that far. She'd talk one customer into killing themselves, then she'd get sleeping powder in her bottled water.

She'd wake up, naked, in the basement. Where they keep the girls for the really hardcore BDSM clients. I mean the REALLY hardcore. (Rent the movie Hostel to see what I mean, but don't eat before you watch it.)

Naw. Trapdoor alligator.

[Zanosuke Kurosaki]

Now if Cyndi got released and got a job at Nerdotica...

Dead. 2 weeks of work. By Aubrey. For murdering about half of the customers, two workmates, and probably three unknown people, and applying makeup in front of the computer. Quick smash in the head, or slow, torturous stabbing with rusty nails. ACIDIC rusty nails.

I don't think she'd get that far. She'd talk one customer into killing themselves, then she'd get sleeping powder in her bottled water.

She'd wake up, naked, in the basement. Where they keep the girls for the really hardcore BDSM clients. I mean the REALLY hardcore. (Rent the movie Hostel to see what I mean, but don't eat before you watch it.)

Naw. Trapdoor alligator.

Naw, even that poor thing has standards. She'd fall prey to the Trees...
Or better yet, the Fried Chicken Demons Peejee summoned in her RPG campaign.

[mindstalk]

Those weren't manifest demons, were they? I recall no such thing.


But S*P has had a murderous psychopath: that other cat living with Davan. Choo-choo Bear had it taken care of.

[brasca]

It's fun to speculate, but seeing as Helen doesn't have much except this thread we should probably steer the conversation back to her plot which will probably be resolved some time in the future. I don't think that strip we saw her last is the final one otherwise Millholland would've said something in the margin so people will stop bugging him about her.

And to tie it with the topic, I think it's that sense, feeling, and understanding of related camaraderie and very close friendship that Helen lacks, and doesn't understand yet? So far her most meaningful relationship has been with Nancy only. I can only hope by the time of Six Septembers Later; she'd have known and learned close, non-parasitic friendships -- and opening herself to it, too.

It's possible that she is making friends. She's in college and I surmise it's computer science related since she gets a lot of temp work and Nerdotica is a company built on tech support and phone sex and we know she's proficient in the former. As such she's probably worked with some other students who have no love of high school either and kindred spirits like Nancy. Since she's living with Nancy she's probably separated from a lot of the campus drama which might be good or bad. It limits social interaction, but economically speaking it's far better than living in an over priced dorm and given Helen's tendency to fall in with bad elements it's probably for the best. I know she had a dream of being a writer, but she's better off learning something practical. If I had to do it all over I'd get a degree in mortuary science. No one ever went broke selling caskets, but I digress.

Personally, I think Helen gets better every time we see her. Beginning with her first appearance in Something Positive she was an inexperienced kid with nothing to lose and way over her head. The next time we saw her she got her GED and had a job as well as an unemployed boyfriend who supported her alcohol problem. Hopefully the boyfriend is out of the picture, but even if he isn't she's done with her first year of college and has a temp job so she's probably on the same track as a lot of her friends from Bellville. Now as Nancy noted she still has this victim mentality as well as a temper, but if she manages to ditch the former and better control the latter she'll be no different than most of the denizens in S*P.

I am curious as to why she wants to still work at Nerdotica since she's doing well enough in her current job. I think it's a need to fulfill part of her original plan to runaway from home to satisfy the notion that she could've made it on her own from the beginning and when she couldn't she subconsciously sabotaged it along with any future chances by cursing out Aubrey.

[Trefle]

Perhaps she might leave the mental institution she's at with the lesson that she needs to practice some restraint to avoid future mishaps. If so then she could be a good match for Ollie and as a couple potentially eclipse Aubrey and Jason as the most dangerous couple in Boston.

Holy crap please don't. O_O;;;;;;;;;

It's possible that she is making friends. She's in college and I surmise it's computer science related since she gets a lot of temp work /quote]
Hmm; I don't know this part, tho; is it in the latest arc we've seen her?
The rest, I agreed. She's having baby steps, but atm she's on track with Kharisma and Mike, as far as 'amount of development' are concerned, and that's quite an achievement. I doubt Helen in particular has strong attachment to campus drama. IMO, she might be the one embracing the change the most.

I am curious as to why she wants to still work at Nerdotica since she's doing well enough in her current job. I think it's a need to fulfill part of her original plan to runaway from home to satisfy the notion that she could've made it on her own from the beginning and when she couldn't she subconsciously sabotaged it along with any future chances by cursing out Aubrey.

Could be; a conscious need to see her Big Decision™ fulfilled, and an unconscious want to -- not follow through. For a good reason/