[2-22-12] It'll be all right.

[Captain LeBubbles]

Or maybe "You're shaking because it's chilly out here, come into my room."

Baby it's cold outside?

"But I really must go."

Can't get the code for the video or the host site, so I'm stuck with the blog I found it on. Sorry.

[MudFlap33]

Panels 6-8 are pretty good, hot even, though.

I'm in agreement here. Especially in the last panel, her lips in particular, she's starting to look a bit Jessica Rabbit-esque. Which, as Jessica Rabbit was probably my first crush, I always appreciate.

[Valerie]

You've had a crap evening in all but is random sex with a chick you just met really a smart move?

Is it a dumb move? Long as everyone's wearing protection and no one gets hurt (unless your partner's into that), what the problem?

O.o Uhh...I dunno do you think a mtf lady like Chrissie would wear a condom? DX Cuz she doesn't seem like she was expecting to have fun tonight. Also I'm not too sure that Lisa has any. Doubt she's that stupid but still.

I'm sure Lisa would have some around, or at least be on the pill, something. She's pretty clearly all about casual sex. It's the responsibility of both parties to make sure someone has protection before fun times happen, anyway, so I don't see Chrissy's being MtF making her less likely to carry something.

[Artemisia]

Depends. . .if she's already had the surgical castration, she may not need one in order to worry about pregnancy. . .STD's are a different matter. Just to note, having the castration surgery does not negate the possibility of her still getting it up, though.

[AmberBeth84]

Just an observation from a lesbian trans woman, even women can think with our dicks. I personally don't have much of a problem with using what I was born with (I equate it to drinking Bud light at a party, you drink it cause it's there and it's free and if you drink enough it'll get you drunk, but it isn't good by any stretch of the imagination) but a lot of women do. I have no difficulty seeing this as Chrissie getting turned on and doing something her rational mind doesn't exactly want and then regretting it once she's regained control of her faculties.

Also, what Lisa's saying, while a bit of a turn on, is exactly the kind of thing that would bring up some massive dysphoria. Even though I don't have a particular problem with my anatomy, I really don't want the person I'm with to make that the focus of her come on. I would much rather a woman talk about anything else in her seduction other than my genitals, and given Chrissie's post-sex reaction, I wouldn't be surprised if she feels the same way.

Yeah...I didn't want to reply to this particular strip right away, but yes, and some of us really don't, well, deal well with the whole penetration thing. It's kind of very individual, but yeah, I think Chrissie wasn't thinking until after and it made her really upset. I should add that this strip made me very, very uncomfortable.

This folds back to the point I made about Lisa's error. She's thinking, "Oh, Chrissie's probably had all sorts of problems because she presents as a woman, but has a penis, so girls like that Leah #$&# freak out and get pissed at her. So instead, I'll treat it as a positive and a turn-on, and that'll put her at ease." It's both an understandable error and, ultimately, a hideously regrettable one.

If Lisa (possibly with Hank's help/advice) manages to actually figure out that this is where she went wrong, then she'll be a better person for the lesson.

Oh, I have never doubt that Lisa caused harm by being naive. Her biggest problem is that she is very naive and has never really gotten that she does not know much about the world as it is.

I agree that Lisa is naive and that her come-on was the type that would deal maximum damage the next morning as a result of her naivete, but I'm gonna cut her some slack on this. She's 18, of course she's naive and of course she thinks she's not. We all were like that at 18. From what I can remember of Lisa (I haven't been on the forum much in the past few months, so I may be wrong here, just going based on the comic itself) she hasn't really dealt with a trans woman in an intimate setting before, and that's an incredibly precarious situation to be in, even I've made missteps there, and hurt someone else, and I'm coming into it knowing full well what it's like to have gender dysphoria. And to be honest, if I had been in Chrissie's shoes, I'd probably have done the same thing and would have freaked out about it, too. Like I said before, she was thinking with her dick and a lot of us have been there and have regrets as a result. It happens and it's no one's fault. They've both learned a painful lesson and will hopefully be a little wiser as a result. That's the only way you can become less naive.

[NobodySpecial]

Lisa's biggest problem will come if she decides that it wasn't consensual and punishes herself as a result.

[Doc Harleen]

D-does the thread title say we're in 2002

I... I guess it does!

LET'S DO THE TIME WARP AGAIN

Ha! Oh, man, I screwed that up. Sorry guys. Been crazy overworked lately. Don't know how that happened.

Fixed it... sorry!

[Artemisia]

I agree that Lisa is naive and that her come-on was the type that would deal maximum damage the next morning as a result of her naivete, but I'm gonna cut her some slack on this. She's 18, of course she's naive and of course she thinks she's not. We all were like that at 18. From what I can remember of Lisa (I haven't been on the forum much in the past few months, so I may be wrong here, just going based on the comic itself) she hasn't really dealt with a trans woman in an intimate setting before, and that's an incredibly precarious situation to be in, even I've made missteps there, and hurt someone else, and I'm coming into it knowing full well what it's like to have gender dysphoria. And to be honest, if I had been in Chrissie's shoes, I'd probably have done the same thing and would have freaked out about it, too. Like I said before, she was thinking with her dick and a lot of us have been there and have regrets as a result. It happens and it's no one's fault. They've both learned a painful lesson and will hopefully be a little wiser as a result. That's the only way you can become less naive.

I'm probably going to regret this, but I've never been that naive, I guess. I know what would happen with me if I tried to have sex in a heterosexual manner would not be pretty, so I made the decision to remain celibate until after reassignment surgery. Then again, my dysphoria might be far more intense than for others, so I can't comment too well on this.

[Valerie]

I agree that Lisa is naive and that her come-on was the type that would deal maximum damage the next morning as a result of her naivete, but I'm gonna cut her some slack on this. She's 18, of course she's naive and of course she thinks she's not. We all were like that at 18. From what I can remember of Lisa (I haven't been on the forum much in the past few months, so I may be wrong here, just going based on the comic itself) she hasn't really dealt with a trans woman in an intimate setting before, and that's an incredibly precarious situation to be in, even I've made missteps there, and hurt someone else, and I'm coming into it knowing full well what it's like to have gender dysphoria. And to be honest, if I had been in Chrissie's shoes, I'd probably have done the same thing and would have freaked out about it, too. Like I said before, she was thinking with her dick and a lot of us have been there and have regrets as a result. It happens and it's no one's fault. They've both learned a painful lesson and will hopefully be a little wiser as a result. That's the only way you can become less naive.

I'm probably going to regret this, but I've never been that naive, I guess. I know what would happen with me if I tried to have sex in a heterosexual manner would not be pretty, so I made the decision to remain celibate until after reassignment surgery. Then again, my dysphoria might be far more intense than for others, so I can't comment too well on this.

You don't have to make mistakes to learn from them. You can see other people make similar mistakes and learn from them, or you can just think a hypothetical situation through thoroughly enough to learn what you should or shouldn't do should that situation ever arise.

[AmberBeth84]

I agree that Lisa is naive and that her come-on was the type that would deal maximum damage the next morning as a result of her naivete, but I'm gonna cut her some slack on this. She's 18, of course she's naive and of course she thinks she's not. We all were like that at 18. From what I can remember of Lisa (I haven't been on the forum much in the past few months, so I may be wrong here, just going based on the comic itself) she hasn't really dealt with a trans woman in an intimate setting before, and that's an incredibly precarious situation to be in, even I've made missteps there, and hurt someone else, and I'm coming into it knowing full well what it's like to have gender dysphoria. And to be honest, if I had been in Chrissie's shoes, I'd probably have done the same thing and would have freaked out about it, too. Like I said before, she was thinking with her dick and a lot of us have been there and have regrets as a result. It happens and it's no one's fault. They've both learned a painful lesson and will hopefully be a little wiser as a result. That's the only way you can become less naive.

I'm probably going to regret this, but I've never been that naive, I guess. I know what would happen with me if I tried to have sex in a heterosexual manner would not be pretty, so I made the decision to remain celibate until after reassignment surgery. Then again, my dysphoria might be far more intense than for others, so I can't comment too well on this.

You don't have to make mistakes to learn from them. You can see other people make similar mistakes and learn from them, or you can just think a hypothetical situation through thoroughly enough to learn what you should or shouldn't do should that situation ever arise.

I totally agree with you Valerie, you can learn from others' mistakes or through thinking out a hypo ahead of time, but I think that is the exception rather than the rule, especially when talking about horny teenagers. (Or horny anybody, for that matter.)

And Artemisia, I totally understand where you're coming from. While I haven't sworn off sex altogether until I've had surgery (though I have been celibate for quite some time), I do tend to avoid "heterosexual" sex acts. For me it's as much a matter of level of enjoyment, I just don't get as much out of that as I do pleasuring my partner in other ways, as it is the fact that if my partner isn't 100% on the same page as I am, intercourse can quickly become a mental and emotional nightmare that I would just as soon avoid.

[Artemisia]

My guess is that I'm exceptional rather than the rule when it comes to all of this.

AmberBeth,

I made that choice because of a number of reasons. My dysphoria is incredibly intense compared to the norm for most transsexuals and transgenders that I have met. It is not something that is easy to live with, and I would say that Chrissie probably suffers from it badly enough to be in a lot of pain, but has not learned how to alleviate or divert the pain.

[Xyloart]

Does Lisa really consider herself not naive? In her conversation with the RA she lamented her not having too wide of a breadth of experiences (especially troubled circumstances).

[Ollie]

something about this conversation seems a little bit ridiculous to me.

But then I'm an incredibly tame person, especially in comparison to Lisa, so

[Brook]

...It can cause me real conflict to receive focus on the female parts of my anatomy. I have a well-meaning, dear friend, who kept inadvertently causing this by praising and emphasizing my female traits, every time I tried to get them out of focus. But I never outright told her "please stop focusing on this; you're making me feel worse, not better". We had constant miscommunications because of my difficulties getting past my awkwardness to be open about exactly what my feelings were, and my friend's assuming that my constant dismissal of my body was due to low self esteem, based on her experience with other friends.

So watching this situation with Chrissie and Lisa through the goggles of my own experience, it seems to me that what Chrissie would have needed to say was (in one or other way) "please don't remind me I have a penis; I'm really not happy about that". But her starting note sounds more like she's worried about Lisa's reaction. While it would have prevented a lot of trouble if Lisa had given her a follow-up question or two instead of answering to that first stumbling attempt, it would also have prevented trouble if Chrissie had been clear about what her real worries were.
Then, judging her like I know myself, Chrissie probably felt afraid to miss out on this altogether if she didn't meet Lisa's expectations, and /or got carried away in general. But that worry isn't Lisa's to carry. Chrissie could have told her she wants to have sex like a woman - using anything but her "male parts" - assuming that's what caused her regret the morning after.

I think what I'm trying to say is, I feel that while there would have been things either of them could have done that would have made the next morning less distressing, I can't see that anyone was acting really neglectful or running the other over. Unfortunate misunderstandings that could have been avoided, yes, but nothing "stupid" or clean-cut wrong.

And they're still both being adorable together in so many ways, I really really hope they get to meet again and at least sort this out, somehow. Plus I want to see more of Chrissie's character and know if she will be all right.

[Freemage]

Does Lisa really consider herself not naive? In her conversation with the RA she lamented her not having too wide of a breadth of experiences (especially troubled circumstances).

Yes, but remember the 'real' chronology, here, rather than how we learned of it. Morning-After Lisa realizes just how naive she's been, in large part because she got hit by a Clue-By-Four when Chrissie freaked out.