09/14/2011 - Millicelebrity

[Mr. Brightside]

And even if it is, it's not for Penny and Aggie. Brandi wouldn't have made an afterthought of them like that at their own wedding.

(I almost said "and there's no way in hell gay marriage will have reached Virginia in (by S*P dating) 2016," but then I remembered that it's not actually meant to be Virginia.)

[Valerie]

It seems a bit weird for 3 of the 4 characters highlighted when Brandi makes her comment about bigots at the school to be Yun-Sung (not at the school and unlikely to be a bigot), Susan (not at the school, and gay to boot) and Omar (who Brandi slept with and didn't come across as a bigot, just a bit of a sleaze, unless I forget something). OK, Tharqa, yes, but it's still a weird way to backdrop Brandi's comments.

Agreed. It's a really weird (and vaguely unfortunate) way to frame the scene. (I'd intended to say something to that effect in my first post, but padded by putting it after the compliment and side comment, then forgot. )

Comment was about trolls, bigots and wastes of flesh. The people highlighted aren't them, but rather their targets. We have, from left to right, an asian (very visibly so), a gay, a FATTY (well, a former one) (capitalized because people in this forum seem to like to point it out), and a black (is it a correct term in English? My vocabulary's failing me here). That's how I read it.

"Black" is the correct race for Omar, yeah. Some people use "African American" instead, but that's generally for more formal conversation. One thing, though, is that "African American" can be used as a noun, but "black" is almost always an adjective. So you would say Omar is an African American or that he's a black person.

"Asian" is supposed to be capitalized, though. And "gay" is kind of the same as "black." Usually, it's "a gay person" instead of "a gay." "A gay" isn't necessarily incorrect, though, it's just a little more like slang.

It's uh, actually slightly more complicated than that. There's this line of thinking, at least in English, that calling a person by an adjective that describes them is derogatory. So "a black" would be considered pretty rude, and so is "a gay." It's like you're saying that the person is only black or only gay, that they aren't people beyond that. But "a gay" is almost like a reclaimed term now, so you'll hear a lot of pro-gay people using it.

I dunno if "reclaimed terms" are even a thing in Finnish (I think you speak Finnish, right?), but it's when you take a word that's meant to be hateful to your group and start using it within your group. It's like the word "nigger" that way. Black people got sick of white people using it in a mean way, so they took it for their own use. "Bitch" is getting there with women, too. Sort of like "Yeah, I'm a nigger/a gay/a bitch, what'cha gonna do about it?"

[Zanosuke Kurosaki]

Only thing, since Omar is mentioned: I'm pretty sure Brandi is including him in that "wastes of flesh" comment. Omar is even sleazier than Stan's haters think Stan is. I don't doubt Brandi figured that out rather quickly.

[Valerie]

Only thing, since Omar is mentioned: I'm pretty sure Brandi is including him in that "wastes of flesh" comment. Omar is even sleazier than Stan's haters think Stan is. I don't doubt Brandi figured that out rather quickly.

*nods*

Besides, all we know for sure is that Brandi had a one-night stand with him. Depending on the person, maybe she's cool with, uh, getting something, out of someone she otherwise doesn't like all that much. (I'm not trying to to judge her for it, if that's the case. Brandi's a good kid, possibly second only to Katy-Ann.)

[rebochan]

Well, the webcomic ran for years and years, and most of what we saw was the school's LGBT community being welcomed with open arms into the "popular" group and the elite party scene of the school, even before the social queen of the school admitted to herself that she was bi. Did we see bigots and fear of bigots? Sure, but if say Fred was having a hard time of it, it's pretty lame to never take an opportunity to show it but then reference it in the coda.

This in a nutshell. The worst the gay cast had to deal with was an apparent lack of dates. Penny wasn't even aware she was IN a closet when the rape video dropped, and even then it wasn't because Sara was gay, it was because a jealous girl and a religious nut case were looking for ANYTHING to trash her with. And even then, they made it a RAPE video and not a coming out video, which would imply that merely being gay wouldn't be enough of a case. Yes, there's been a time jump, but the events we've been shown would suggest that the student body made a sudden u-turn from being mostly "eh" to "raving bigoted mob".

Still wondering why the school never intervened on that, by the way ("One of our student's won't make tuition next term?! THROW HIS ASS OUT! One of our students is a rapist? Eh, whatevs. HAIL SATAN!")

[Valerie]

Well, the webcomic ran for years and years, and most of what we saw was the school's LGBT community being welcomed with open arms into the "popular" group and the elite party scene of the school, even before the social queen of the school admitted to herself that she was bi. Did we see bigots and fear of bigots? Sure, but if say Fred was having a hard time of it, it's pretty lame to never take an opportunity to show it but then reference it in the coda.

This in a nutshell. The worst the gay cast had to deal with was an apparent lack of dates. Penny wasn't even aware she was IN a closet when the rape video dropped, and even then it wasn't because Sara was gay, it was because a jealous girl and a religious nut case were looking for ANYTHING to trash her with. And even then, they made it a RAPE video and not a coming out video, which would imply that merely being gay wouldn't be enough of a case. Yes, there's been a time jump, but the events we've been shown would suggest that the student body made a sudden u-turn from being mostly "eh" to "raving bigoted mob".

If you remember, though, no one seemed to jump on Sara for being a rapist. Everyone made fun of her for being gay. People were pointing and laughing, there was a poster put up in an attempt to be funny-- no one seemed to take the "rape" part of the accusation seriously at all. I'd find that to be all the proof you need. The student body completely ignored that Sara was accused of being a rapist because she was gay. They focused on the gay. Clearly, being gay is worse than being a rapist, or at least more prone to ridicule.

Also, Penny, who was not accused of being a rapist (but was painted as gay because of the video) had this.

(In fact, it seems like Daphne is the only one who's ever shown believing the "rapist" part, and everyone on the forum is always hating on her for it. Yeah, she's Sara's friend, but they weren't friends for that long at the time, and when you consider that the only person who focused on the "rape" instead of the "gay" was another lesbian...)

[Dogberry]

Bingo! Just noticed that Brandi called the event a "reception!"

That doesn't mean it's for a wedding.

The “Class of...” banner was blurred out, possibly to misdirect us. Our halls are full of “Class of ...” banners for this year's seniors. Tharqa obviously just showed up uninvited, deluding herself into thinking she would be welcomed.

Maybe it's not a wedding reception. I know I'm a newcomer to the forum, but I didn't think you had to be 100% correct to play.

[Dogberry]

Well, the webcomic ran for years and years, and most of what we saw was the school's LGBT community being welcomed with open arms into the "popular" group and the elite party scene of the school, even before the social queen of the school admitted to herself that she was bi. Did we see bigots and fear of bigots? Sure, but if say Fred was having a hard time of it, it's pretty lame to never take an opportunity to show it but then reference it in the coda.

This in a nutshell. The worst the gay cast had to deal with was an apparent lack of dates. Penny wasn't even aware she was IN a closet when the rape video dropped, and even then it wasn't because Sara was gay, it was because a jealous girl and a religious nut case were looking for ANYTHING to trash her with. And even then, they made it a RAPE video and not a coming out video, which would imply that merely being gay wouldn't be enough of a case. Yes, there's been a time jump, but the events we've been shown would suggest that the student body made a sudden u-turn from being mostly "eh" to "raving bigoted mob".

If you remember, though, no one seemed to jump on Sara for being a rapist. Everyone made fun of her for being gay. People were pointing and laughing, there was a poster put up in an attempt to be funny-- no one seemed to take the "rape" part of the accusation seriously at all. I'd find that to be all the proof you need. The student body completely ignored that Sara was accused of being a rapist because she was gay. They focused on the gay. Clearly, being gay is worse than being a rapist, or at least more prone to ridicule.

Also, Penny, who was not accused of being a rapist (but was painted as gay because of the video) had this.

(In fact, it seems like Daphne is the only one who's ever shown believing the "rapist" part, and everyone on the forum is always hating on her for it. Yeah, she's Sara's friend, but they weren't friends for that long at the time, and when you consider that the only person who focused on the "rape" instead of the "gay" was another lesbian...)

We never saw what that senior year was like, but here's my guess. Both P & A had already admitted to their parents that this relationship was not going to be easy. We only see them surrounded by their supportive friends and family, but in the world of Belleville High, it would be harder. Both would be ostracized to a degree. Aggie was used to being one of the students thought of as weird, but Penny wasn't. Their year together, whether they went to college together or not, would have either tempered their love or withered it (look at Aggie's fear about Penny coming to resent her). The character of these two people would have been tested beyond anything we saw in the strip earlier.

We also never heard Aggie say those words “I love you.” Maybe T will show us that moment in a flashback, or maybe that will be the resolution to the series.

[Alice Macher]

(In fact, it seems like Daphne is the only one who's ever shown believing the "rapist" part

The only one shown doing so, yes. But I suspect that she wasn't the only one. Recall Sara's reaction in these two strips. First, she shoves Charlotte hard against her locker. I doubt she would've done that--violence is out of character for her--if, Daphne aside, the worst that had come of the video was getting outed before she was ready. (Although that can in and of itself be a terrible, in some cases even tragic, thing to happen to a teenager, no lie, but note how quickly this particular student body seems to have forgotten about it and left Sara alone. Except for, as T once said in the forum, Tharqa, who unrepentantly kept reuploading the video every time Charlotte or someone else took it down.)

Second, when Penny has Sara let Charlotte go, Sara says, "You believe me, don't you?" Given that Penny already knows Sara's gay and is cool with it, that plea can mean only one thing: "You believe I didn't rape her, don't you?" That's not a question she would ask if Daphne had been the only one to show she believed the rape accusation. As you say, Daphne and Sara hadn't been friends that long, so although Daph's words undoubtedly hurt her, I doubt they alone would've hurt her that badly. So I think there must've been others.

[maritza]

There's no evidence Omar was more of a sleaze than Stan. What we knew is that he was in a relationship with Samantha, and when that relationship was over, he was sleeping around. With Karen, with Brandi... And although Karen was with Marshall then, Stan tried to do the same. Worse, he was in a relationship with Michelle at the time.

[rebochan]

If you remember, though, no one seemed to jump on Sara for being a rapist. Everyone made fun of her for being gay. People were pointing and laughing, there was a poster put up in an attempt to be funny-- no one seemed to take the "rape" part of the accusation seriously at all. I'd find that to be all the proof you need. The student body completely ignored that Sara was accused of being a rapist because she was gay. They focused on the gay. Clearly, being gay is worse than being a rapist, or at least more prone to ridicule.

The poster was put up by Sam, part of the same group of people trying to ruin Sara for personal reasons, and accused Sara of being a rapist - phrases such as "Snatch snatcher" and "She'll get you too!" are implying that the person in question is a predator.

Every time we saw people pointing and laughing, it was because she was accused of being a rapist or Penny being accused of being a cocktease (in the same page you linked actually). Neither girl was attacked for their sexuality alone - both had to be significantly trumped for it to be an issue. Once the arc was over, Sara and Penny were shown as popular and accepted again - some of the parties even showed people who had been making fun of them before attending them. And of course, Cyndi was extremely popular despite never hiding her sexuality at all - and Daph saw no blowback from making out with her in public either.

Unfortunately, when this comic operates so hard on Show, Don't Tell, I have to call foul when something is Told, Not Shown. Heck, I never saw anything that suggested Fred's issues with his sexuality were anything but self-created - which isn't necessarily a slam if he's just super insecure and afraid of rejection and using an outside source as a shield (and in fact, I kinda wish that angle had been explored better). Actually, I'd almost argue that we might have been intended to see him that way, considering the way his boyfriend shown here is rather protective of Fred's feelings as opposed to his reputation.

Also, Penny, who was not accused of being a rapist (but was painted as gay because of the video) had this.

It also had this, which implied Penny was part of it.

(In fact, it seems like Daphne is the only one who's ever shown believing the "rapist" part, and everyone on the forum is always hating on her for it. Yeah, she's Sara's friend, but they weren't friends for that long at the time, and when you consider that the only person who focused on the "rape" instead of the "gay" was another lesbian...)

Except that a lot of people apparently DID believe it if Sara was still worried about it six years later (and of course, when she was on the reality show).

We never saw what that senior year was like, but here's my guess. Both P & A had already admitted to their parents that this relationship was not going to be easy. We only see them surrounded by their supportive friends and family, but in the world of Belleville High, it would be harder. Both would be ostracized to a degree. Aggie was used to being one of the students thought of as weird, but Penny wasn't. Their year together, whether they went to college together or not, would have either tempered their love or withered it (look at Aggie's fear about Penny coming to resent her). The character of these two people would have been tested beyond anything we saw in the strip earlier.

That's great, but we've not really seen anything in the comic to indicate that the student body as a whole would treat them that way. I feel like there's a missing link that would make me believe the students of Belleville would actually be hostile as supposed to indifferent.

[Valerie]

Bingo! Just noticed that Brandi called the event a "reception!"

That doesn't mean it's for a wedding.

The “Class of...” banner was blurred out, possibly to misdirect us. Our halls are full of “Class of ...” banners for this year's seniors. Tharqa obviously just showed up uninvited, deluding herself into thinking she would be welcomed.

Maybe it's not a wedding reception. I know I'm a newcomer to the forum, but I didn't think you had to be 100% correct to play.

I didn't mean to come off as hostile. I'm sorry if I did.

[Dogberry]

Bingo! Just noticed that Brandi called the event a "reception!"

That doesn't mean it's for a wedding.

The “Class of...” banner was blurred out, possibly to misdirect us. Our halls are full of “Class of ...” banners for this year's seniors. Tharqa obviously just showed up uninvited, deluding herself into thinking she would be welcomed.

Maybe it's not a wedding reception. I know I'm a newcomer to the forum, but I didn't think you had to be 100% correct to play.

I didn't mean to come off as hostile. I'm sorry if I did.

No offense taken. I enjoy the sharing of ideas on this site and the unforeseen directions they take. I've learned quite a bit from the give and take. I guess I just felt too quickly dismissed (patience seems to be wearing thin with those of us intensely hoping for that happy ending).

[Fen]

Awwwww.

T may be a tease, but he is fairly aware of how obsessive his fans are; as well as the fact that if he wouldn't have a happy ending bad stuff would happen >.>, given how involved some people are with the comic.

[MudFlap33]

Have to admit, I took Brandi's comment in the last panel incorrectly. I thought the context of her comment was "ways to subtly get revenge on your horrible classmates" instead of "ways to subtly show your horrible classmates that the queers have them beat" and therefore thought Brandi was poking fun at Brian for being a *bad* cook--so feeding people his food would make them suffer. I also that her expression was sarcastic, and Brian was blushing because he was used to being teased about his disasters in the kitchen. The other interpretation works better, though, especially with the newly-chubby Fred.