You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Science-fiction fans discuss other science-fiction fans, who are fiction.

You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Postby brasca » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:12 pm

Well this is certainly a new development. Even if the body swap was a success that doesn't mean he's cured. Wonder if the Hand is offering the cure.
User avatar
brasca
 
Posts: 2759
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:57 pm
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Postby justvisiting » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:13 pm

Something tells me they're not talking to Rikk. Maybe the jolt shocked the body donor's brain back into full operation.
User avatar
justvisiting
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:10 am

Re: You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Postby brasca » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:25 pm

justvisiting wrote:Something tells me they're not talking to Rikk. Maybe the jolt shocked the body donor's brain back into full operation.


That would be some cruel misdirection.
User avatar
brasca
 
Posts: 2759
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:57 pm
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Postby Arky » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:31 pm

brasca wrote:
justvisiting wrote:Something tells me they're not talking to Rikk. Maybe the jolt shocked the body donor's brain back into full operation.


That would be some cruel misdirection.


That's how we know it's probably what happened.


On another note, given that Team Alpha was willing to ambush the Cuckoos without advance warning and try to kill them (albeit not hugely effectively, but not for want of effort), I'm still not sure where this whole "let's leave Keith alive and in relative comfort" mentality is coming from. I do not favour the death penalty, but I have no issue with law enforcement or the military killing someone to save more lives, and executing Feddyg falls under that by a country mile. If it didn't before Hilda's vision, it certainly should do so now.
Arky
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:16 am

Re: You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Postby justvisiting » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:32 pm

brasca wrote:
justvisiting wrote:Something tells me they're not talking to Rikk. Maybe the jolt shocked the body donor's brain back into full operation.


That would be some cruel misdirection.


Well, we already know from the framing device for the chapter that this has already happened, and Rikk's still anticipating he might not live long enough to see his kid grow up. Plus, Shanna and Hilda's whole conversation keeps getting tangled up over whether Hilda's referring to Rikk or not at any given moment. So unless the whole incident has just triggered his awareness of his own mortality, I don't even know that it counts as "misdirection."
User avatar
justvisiting
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:10 am

Re: You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Postby bunnyThor » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:33 pm

brasca wrote:That would be some cruel misdirection.


Snerk.

Welcome to Fans! :lol:
User avatar
bunnyThor
 
Posts: 780
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:38 am

Re: You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Postby TCampbell » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:04 am

Arky wrote:
brasca wrote:
justvisiting wrote:Something tells me they're not talking to Rikk. Maybe the jolt shocked the body donor's brain back into full operation.


That would be some cruel misdirection.


That's how we know it's probably what happened.


On another note, given that Team Alpha was willing to ambush the Cuckoos without advance warning and try to kill them (albeit not hugely effectively, but not for want of effort), I'm still not sure where this whole "let's leave Keith alive and in relative comfort" mentality is coming from. I do not favour the death penalty, but I have no issue with law enforcement or the military killing someone to save more lives, and executing Feddyg falls under that by a country mile. If it didn't before Hilda's vision, it certainly should do so now.


Problem is, Hilda's vision is Hilda's vision. Even she would have to concede she only sees probable futures, and the legal implications of killing someone for their probable future crimes are... let's go with "troubling?"
User avatar
TCampbell
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3345
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:57 am

Re: You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Postby Speedball » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:49 am

True enough. On the other hand I totally can't blame Hilda for having this reaction.
Speedball
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:15 am

Re: You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Postby Eyeless Blond » Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:23 am

TCampbell wrote:Problem is, Hilda's vision is Hilda's vision. Even she would have to concede she only sees probable futures, and the legal implications of killing someone for their probable future crimes are... let's go with "troubling?"

Not even a little. We don't even need to get into precrime to know that Freddyg needs to die; we already know that, based on what he's already done. The only reason that society can get away with the functional equivalent--life without parole--is that most rich modern societies have a reasonable expectation of actually being able to carry out that sentence. What Hilda has just shown is that incarceration is likely to ultimately prove ineffective; in other words, not only is he a danger to humanity now, but his continued existence is a threat to humanity's future. It's sort of the same reason we deny bail to people who are a flight risk; with his powers, Freddyg has the ability to leave, and to be a clear and present danger to humanity if and when he does. He cannot be contained, and he cannot be rehabilitated, therefore he must be extinguished.
Eyeless Blond
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:46 am

Re: You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Postby TCampbell » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:35 am

Eyeless Blond wrote:
TCampbell wrote:Problem is, Hilda's vision is Hilda's vision. Even she would have to concede she only sees probable futures, and the legal implications of killing someone for their probable future crimes are... let's go with "troubling?"

Not even a little. We don't even need to get into precrime to know that Freddyg needs to die; we already know that, based on what he's already done. The only reason that society can get away with the functional equivalent--life without parole--is that most rich modern societies have a reasonable expectation of actually being able to carry out that sentence. What Hilda has just shown is that incarceration is likely to ultimately prove ineffective; in other words, not only is he a danger to humanity now, but his continued existence is a threat to humanity's future. It's sort of the same reason we deny bail to people who are a flight risk; with his powers, Freddyg has the ability to leave, and to be a clear and present danger to humanity if and when he does. He cannot be contained, and he cannot be rehabilitated, therefore he must be extinguished.


According to "The Day The Alphabet Died," AEGIS does indeed have the ability to contain magicians. You can bet Charlotte hasn't stayed with them voluntarily. It is possible to argue, and Hilda certainly might, that the potential consequences of his ever getting out are so severe that they justify homicide. But even so, many members of Team Alpha (Rikk, Will, Shanna, Tim and Baxter primarily) are too pro-civil rights to go along with that. They'd consider it the sort of corrupt move that originally made the F.I.B. their enemies.
User avatar
TCampbell
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3345
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:57 am

Re: You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Postby justvisiting » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:24 am

TCampbell wrote:You can bet Charlotte hasn't stayed with them voluntarily.


Maybe I ought to take this over to the Q&A thread, but are they at least trying rehabilitation on her?
User avatar
justvisiting
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:10 am

Re: You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Postby TCampbell » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:39 am

justvisiting wrote:
TCampbell wrote:You can bet Charlotte hasn't stayed with them voluntarily.


Maybe I ought to take this over to the Q&A thread, but are they at least trying rehabilitation on her?


Yeah, but I don't see what that has to do with it. I mean, how would that even work if they couldn't contain her?

RIKK: All right, Charlotte. I know what you've been through, but you're with us now, and we're going to teach you to become a productive member of soci--

[Charlotte nukes Rikk in the face]

[Charlotte breaks through the wall]

[Charlotte escapes and then brings down the building]

It's only after a lot of work that she was trusted enough to be allowed to help out, even in emergency situations. And even that was a calculated risk.
User avatar
TCampbell
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3345
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:57 am

Re: You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Postby brasca » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:11 pm

bunnyThor wrote:
brasca wrote:That would be some cruel misdirection.


Snerk.

Welcome to Fans! :lol:


Oh I'm well aware of it. It would be cruel and blatant. I expect a little better than that.

The thing is Hilda saw one possibility, but Ally only got to ask 3 questions and didn't ask the right ones. It's possible that in the timeline that played out AEGIS didn't trust Feddyg to cure Rikk and Ally was just asking this to see if he could've back then. I still think the Hand is going to attempt to bring Feddyg to justice since he's a better target than Vermith and in the ensuing chaos Keith will break free. Consequently, the Hand makes lemon from lemonade and protects the rest of the world from Feddyg while blaming AEGIS which in their diminished condition would not be able to retaliate against Feddyg or the Hand or tell their side of the story.
User avatar
brasca
 
Posts: 2759
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:57 pm
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Postby IS_Wolf » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:07 pm

brasca wrote:
Oh I'm well aware of it. It would be cruel and blatant. I expect a little better than that.

The thing is Hilda saw one possibility, but Ally only got to ask 3 questions and didn't ask the right ones. It's possible that in the timeline that played out AEGIS didn't trust Feddyg to cure Rikk and Ally was just asking this to see if he could've back then. I still think the Hand is going to attempt to bring Feddyg to justice since he's a better target than Vermith and in the ensuing chaos Keith will break free. Consequently, the Hand makes lemon from lemonade and protects the rest of the world from Feddyg while blaming AEGIS which in their diminished condition would not be able to retaliate against Feddyg or the Hand or tell their side of the story.


One problem with that. Breaking into the Aegis equivalent of Guantanamo Bay to bring Feddyyg to "justice" isn't going to play that well, considering it's a Federal prison. Folks tend to take a dim view of folks breaking into prison to do stuff to the prisoners. Sure, they could demand they hand him over, but actually breaking into the place is akin to a formal declaration of war against the State. They'd end up with every law enforcement and/or military force after their hides.

Sure, they can handle that, but PR wise it's a nightmare, when you consider they're trying to pretend that they're the white hats.

Sure there will be a segment of the population who will like them, due to their own anti-federal stance, but that group is still a vast minority when compared to the Yanks in general.
IS_Wolf
 
Posts: 693
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:36 pm

Re: You're... Cured (9/26/11)

Postby Arky » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:31 pm

TCampbell wrote:
Arky wrote:
brasca wrote:
justvisiting wrote:Something tells me they're not talking to Rikk. Maybe the jolt shocked the body donor's brain back into full operation.


That would be some cruel misdirection.


That's how we know it's probably what happened.


On another note, given that Team Alpha was willing to ambush the Cuckoos without advance warning and try to kill them (albeit not hugely effectively, but not for want of effort), I'm still not sure where this whole "let's leave Keith alive and in relative comfort" mentality is coming from. I do not favour the death penalty, but I have no issue with law enforcement or the military killing someone to save more lives, and executing Feddyg falls under that by a country mile. If it didn't before Hilda's vision, it certainly should do so now.


Problem is, Hilda's vision is Hilda's vision. Even she would have to concede she only sees probable futures, and the legal implications of killing someone for their probable future crimes are... let's go with "troubling?"


I don't believe in the death penalty and I would happily execute Feddyg for what he did already, not as some kind of punishment but to protect the world from the risk of his escape. Given the likely damage and body count if Feddyg ever escaped, and given that escape is far from impossible considering both his personal powers and the existence of powerful villians with teleportation and all manner of strange abilities (both villians generally and the Cuckoos who are right there), I would have to treat it as being one life vs thousands, millions. even billions.

And again, the Fans were willing to ambush and kill the Cuckoos without trial basically on the word of people from the future, so keeping Feddyg alive (and giving him a comfy cell, and letting him speak to Ally) all strikes me as really poor thinking on their part (not out of character, but poor nonetheless).
Arky
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:16 am

Next

Return to Fans

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron