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Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:36 pm
by LadyObvious23
Funny how before all that she had NO disgust over them. At all. And it would have been more inclusive as well. Oh well.

Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:43 pm
by brasca
LadyObvious23 wrote:....why in the Fuck would she?


Depends on who you are referring. Daphne is horny and would accept just any girl except Penny. In another what-if scenario I could see Cyndi stringing her along for giggles instead of just toying with her at Karen's party. And Helen is desperate for attention and be of use. With enough alcohol she took a tumble with Bob and Elmer. Moreover, we really did not get that much insight into Helen's sexuality. A safe bet is that she is straight, but part of the reason Aggie dismissed the notion of her being a lesbian is she considered girls like Penny, Karen, Sara, and Michelle too mean to be attractive. This changed later, but it is possible that someone with a skewed perception of people and undoubtedly parental pressure like Helen might not consider the possibility she could be gay or possibly bisexual. The last time we saw her in Something Positive she seemed to have a Girl With the Dragon Tattoo look so who knows what she's been up to in college or how much of an influence her roommate Nancy who is bisexual has had on her.

Cutting to the chase do you think Daphne is so insufferable that even poor pathetic desperate for affection Helen would not fake it just to have that significant other?

Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:16 pm
by LadyObvious23
Helen wouldn't fake being a lesbian. Also I may not like Daphne but I want her to have a girlfriend who is attracted to her in more ways than one and not a fake lesbian. That's just hideous and awful for anyone to try. Don't even try to justify that shit ever.

"Desperate for Attention" or not.

Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:54 pm
by timemonkey
LadyObvious23 wrote:Funny how before all that she had NO disgust over them. At all. And it would have been more inclusive as well. Oh well.

Her interest in them before was childlike and naïve. She liked anyone who gave her attention or made her feel special/cool. She could have been bi, but she's not. I find it funny so many focus on Willow when literally almost every other character in the Buffyverse will express at least some interest in both sexes. There's only a handful that restrict themselves to specific genders.

Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:10 am
by brasca
LadyObvious23 wrote:Helen wouldn't fake being a lesbian. Also I may not like Daphne but I want her to have a girlfriend who is attracted to her in more ways than one and not a fake lesbian. That's just hideous and awful for anyone to try. Don't even try to justify that shit ever.

"Desperate for Attention" or not.


You're the one that is bringing into question Willow's change in sexuality. Although I must confessing being an avid reader of Menage a 3 makes just about any coupling possible so I don't entirely rule out anything especially if it is potentially hot. :wink:

And in all honesty how many people thought Penny would end up with Aggie when this strip first started?

Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:55 am
by LadyObvious23
I wasn't. Not entirely. Cuz the whole five-year old bullying thing. Ya know? Standard "luv" scenario.

Really glad they broke up though. Cuz they're good together. But at the time not so much.

Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:58 am
by thebitterfig
Interesting trivia, if Wikipedia can be trusted: Willow/Kennedy was the first lesbian sex scene on network television, in 2003. Tool or not, that counts for something.

There's this odd, paradox isn't the right word, around Whedon. He's better than 3 out of 4 or 5 other folks in his role in television, but lauded like he's the pinnacle. Which causes tensions since his work has its fair share of flaws, and the excessive praise heaped upon him just ups the stakes.

timemonkey wrote:...when literally almost every other character in the Buffyverse will express at least some interest in both sexes.


Well, expanded Buffyverse, at least. In the one show B:TVS, I don't really recall many characters being other than straight.

To that end, The Toast's Femslash Friday on Buffy/Faith: "Would Buffy and Faith make a healthy couple in the long term? Probably not. They’re young and confused and drawn to all the qualities in each other that they hate in themselves, and that is a recipe for a really fucked-up toxic friendship/star-crossed romance/hate-sex marathon.[...] I’m not saying I need them to live happily ever after, but I wish they’d gotten the chance to knock down a few houses together."

In other words, it's basically Buffy/Spike, except that it actually makes sense.

Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:07 am
by timemonkey
While I wasn't sure if they'd stay together I figured Penny and Aggie hooking up at least once was pretty much inevitable. They were just too invested in each other for it top remain entirely platonic.

Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:32 am
by TCampbell
thebitterfig wrote:Interesting trivia, if Wikipedia can be trusted: Willow/Kennedy was the first lesbian sex scene on network television, in 2003. Tool or not, that counts for something.


It's not even the first lesbian sex scene on Buffy (there was definitely one in "Once More With Feeling") so I'd be inclined to say that no, Wikipedia can't be trusted.

I have to admit, I always found Willow's "I'm gay now" protests to be pretty unconvincing, but at least I could say they were unconvincing from the character and not the writers. Not to say she didn't seem far happier and more comfortable with Tara, under normal circumstances, than she did with Xander and even Oz, and I could certainly buy she's more attracted to women, but I don't think being gay is something you become. That said, it would be pretty unbelievable if every non-straight character in mass media was completely accurate in describing their own orientations. Penny and Aggie weren't perfect at doing so for a long time, either.

Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:23 pm
by timemonkey
The Once More With Feeling is merely implied, heavily implied but still merely implied. Took me years to realise how dirty the ending lyrics were. XD

Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:46 pm
by thebitterfig
I had that in mind and almost mentioned, but thought it'd muck up the clean lines of the post. I think timemonkey is right that it lives greatly in subtlety and innuendo, and no one takes off any clothing.