Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

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Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

Postby Topic Starter Robot » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:02 pm

Awakening 15 16 17 18 19 20
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Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

Postby LadyObvious23 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:12 pm

No. Aggie yer not. Lisa was kinda egging you on. I mean really? Lisa calls her judgemental but wow does she have her moments where she's worse.
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Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

Postby Adrishiana » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:27 pm

I don't much care for Sara's hair here. It gets better later (and probably easier to draw!).

Lisa sure spends a lot of time judging what other people like in music.
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Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

Postby brasca » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:41 pm

Adrishiana wrote:I don't much care for Sara's hair here. It gets better later (and probably easier to draw!).

Lisa sure spends a lot of time judging what other people like in music.


And she has no right since she loves Train's "Drops of Jupiter."

I have to wonder what things might have been like if Aggie had realized her sexuality sooner. Wonder how long things might have lasted with Daphne.
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Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

Postby LadyObvious23 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:21 am

Two days because Daphne's a horny ass doofus. Not liking the Willow sexuality change reference. Cuz holy fuck did Joss screw that one up. Would it have killed him to let Willow be bisexual?

After all she did have two meaningful relationships with two guys and clearly liked men too. Kinda biphobic to make her just gay.
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Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

Postby Alice Macher » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:27 am

brasca wrote:
Adrishiana wrote:I don't much care for Sara's hair here. It gets better later (and probably easier to draw!).

Lisa sure spends a lot of time judging what other people like in music.


And she has no right since she loves Train's "Drops of Jupiter."


But Nickelback does suck. This is empirical, peer-reviewed fact. :twisted: *flees*

I admit that here I'm not so much sticking up for Lisa as against Nickelback. Chad Kroeger is misogynistic and gross.

I have to wonder what things might have been like if Aggie had realized her sexuality sooner. Wonder how long things might have lasted with Daphne.


My guess? Even less time than they did with Sara, because with Aggie not spending several weeks apart from her as Sara did, she would've cottoned on to Daphne's jealousy, clinginess and grudge-bearing re Penny even sooner.
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Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

Postby brasca » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:42 am

LadyObvious23 wrote:Two days because Daphne's a horny ass doofus. Not liking the Willow sexuality change reference. Cuz holy fuck did Joss screw that one up. Would it have killed him to let Willow be bisexual?

After all she did have two meaningful relationships with two guys and clearly liked men too. Kinda biphobic to make her just gay.


How is it any different with Aggie? She was attracted to Marshall and tried to convince herself that Darren was a suitable replacement until finally getting together with Penny. After high school she's only dated women so it's fairly safe to say she's gay.
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Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

Postby LadyObvious23 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:37 pm

There's a huge difference. Aggie never had a long meaningful relationship with either of them. And only had a superficial crush on Marshall. Admitted that she was using Darren to him and apologized as well.

Completely different.
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Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

Postby brasca » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:04 pm

LadyObvious23 wrote:There's a huge difference. Aggie never had a long meaningful relationship with either of them. And only had a superficial crush on Marshall. Admitted that she was using Darren to him and apologized as well.

Completely different.


I can believe Willow coming out because she was young at the time and sometimes it takes a few years to realize it, but I suppose if you had to rate her on the Kinsey scale she is probably someone who could tolerate being in a relationship with a man. It's a wide spectrum.

Now on the subject of people who might be able to convince themselves into playing for the other team how long do you think things would've lasted if Helen tried to be gay? They both hate Penny and Helen is desperate enough for affection that she'd sleep with Bob and Elmer so I can hardly see a little experimentation with Daphne as being any worse.
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Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

Postby LadyObvious23 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:11 pm

....why in the Fuck would she?

And I'd rather not use the Kinsey scale to tell how gay someone is. Considering how flawed it is and the person who made it tested it on children. Yeah. Not gonna fucking use it.
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Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

Postby timemonkey » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:41 pm

Willow had ONE meaningful relationship with a man, a relationship that revolved entirely around his personality. Her thing with Xander was a crush whose only appeal was forbidden fruit. When she had the opportunity to be with him for real she didn't even consider it. In fact if you look at early Willow she was never really all 'look how hot that guy is' even when it was her boyfriend. It's not until she started looking at the ladies that she started vocalising physical attraction on a regular basis.

And sometimes you don't realise how little a gender does for you until you experience what you're actually into. I remember when I was younger I was always looking at the girls, saw how pretty they were, even had a few big crushes, and I thought that's just how romance and attraction felt. It wasn't for a few years, when I actually let myself consider the possibility of looking at guys that I realised how much stronger the attraction to men was and how little I was really into those girls in the physical sense.
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Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

Postby thebitterfig » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:33 pm

The other Willow thing: after Tara was killed, if Willow had "gone back" to dating guys, it would have been torches and pitchforks. The interpretation would be that she'd "gone back to straight" and that would have drawn considerable ire for all having "just been a phase."

If Willow had said at some point "gay, bi, labels, meh." it wouldn't have at all felt out of character, and there would have been considerable pro-bi support there. However, this was also 10 years ago, when SSM was still legal nowhere, and there probably wasn't a lot of lesbian representation either. Of course, as a straight, white, cis-male, I'm the last person to weigh comparative representation benefits of potential characters.
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Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

Postby timemonkey » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:52 pm

I would have accepted bisexual Willow, or screw-labels I'll love who I want Willow but Willow's been consistent since she got with Tara: girls hot, guys not so much. Even in the comics she's still only into the ladies. I actually feel it's disrespectful of the character to try to force her into the box fans believe she should be in, rather than the one she identifies as.
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Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

Postby LadyObvious23 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:37 pm

You can be bisexual and still prefer ladies. You can be bisexual and prefer men. Saying that you "date only one gender makes you lesbian/straight". Seems a bit biphobic.

Also Tara's death seemed pretty unnecessary. Especially since the second girl she gets in a relationship is a fucking tool.
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Re: Re-read week 81: Awakening 15 - 20

Postby timemonkey » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:14 pm

The fact that she's repeated expressed disgust over male bodies demonstrates she's not bisexual. Stop trying to fit her square peg into your round hole. There's lots of characters in the Buffyverse, many of whom are almost certainly bisexual.


Tara died to facilitate Dark Willow, Whedon's been clear about that. He would have killed anyone she was dating at the time. He was originally going to have Glory kill her instead of just brain sucking her but decided to keep her around another year.
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