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Re-read week 74: Vertigo 7 - 12

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:02 pm
by Topic Starter Robot
Vertigo 7 8 9 10 11 12

Re: Re-read week 74: Vertigo 7 - 12

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:15 pm
by LadyObvious23
And this made me wish that she wasn't gay. Seriously. I wish someone would just knock Lisa down a peg.

Also Sara's hands don't look manly to me. If being manly as fuck is all it takes to be a lesbian then I guess women who are feminine lesbians don't count anymore.

...O.o Thank goodness for adrenaline. Really glad that Rich survives this.

Re: Re-read week 74: Vertigo 7 - 12

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:18 pm
by Alice Macher
Never got the "man hands" thing, myself.

I think my favourite bit from this segment has to be Sara's screaming uvula. Wonder whether that was in the script, or Gisèle's doing.

Re: Re-read week 74: Vertigo 7 - 12

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:57 pm
by Twitcher
Lisa's best trait, her ability to get people to focus, is also her worst flaw, and it's what helps her to knock herself down a peg in QUILTBAG; she sees herself as a fixer who can find the ultimate solution by forcing someone to confront an uncomfortable situation. This works in P+A to an astoundingly miraculous degree, much less so in QUILTBAG.

Re: Re-read week 74: Vertigo 7 - 12

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:22 pm
by Adrishiana
Aggie, you're not helpful. Lisa, please punch yourself in the face and stay inside until you realize you're an asshole and also until you STOP being an asshole. (... Stay inside somewhere other than home, though, lest your parents enable you more.)

This is one of the few times we actually see Lisa get called out on her bullshit without the one doing the calling-out getting punished by the narrative, though (even if the lesson doesn't appear to stick), so I guess that's something.

Rich has adrenaline on his side. Gary does not have smarts on his.

Re: Re-read week 74: Vertigo 7 - 12

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:14 am
by Alice Macher
We also see here, at least in retrospect, the first seeds of the Sara-Rich friendship.

Re: Re-read week 74: Vertigo 7 - 12

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:03 am
by Valerie
I love how Rich was all, "Chicks, bro, who gets 'em," and then Gary did exactly what Rich said women do... I don't think I caught that the first time around. XD

Re: Re-read week 74: Vertigo 7 - 12

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:21 am
by timemonkey
I wish Rich had been the one Sara had outed herself to.

Re: Re-read week 74: Vertigo 7 - 12

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:18 am
by brasca
Adrishiana wrote:Aggie, you're not helpful. Lisa, please punch yourself in the face and stay inside until you realize you're an asshole and also until you STOP being an asshole. (... Stay inside somewhere other than home, though, lest your parents enable you more.)

This is one of the few times we actually see Lisa get called out on her bullshit without the one doing the calling-out getting punished by the narrative, though (even if the lesson doesn't appear to stick), so I guess that's something.


After 2 weeks of technical difficulties logging back into the Tea Room Brasca Champion of the Nerdy Girls is back.... but not all that enthusiastic to defend Lisa. :roll:

I agree that one of the things I found infuriating with Lisa's character was a certainty and self-assured attitude that her little provocations were in everyone's best interest. However, she was not self-righteous to the extent Aggie could be and if you hated her she would shrug it off. I cannot fault her about that. One could argue that it helped bring out the things people kept secret and was ultimately for the best, but people seldom like that interference and it seemed to be hit or miss with her friends. Her antics might have helped Sara realized her sexuality or Aggie's own inner conflict with the people she crushed on, but it had no effect on the one friend they had that had deep insecurity issues on account of emotionally abusive parents. Insulting Helen's pop culture favorites did not make her fight back, but make her doubt whether she was with the right group and how much longer would they want her around.

Re: Re-read week 74: Vertigo 7 - 12

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:11 am
by Twitcher
Lisa was a megabagadouche to Helen, but Lisa doesn't know Helen like the audience does-- she couldn't possibly understand how much she hurt Helen. Lisa did, however, have a good grasp of what Sara was going through, and says as much... but messes with her anyway on the grounds that it'll be good for her in the long run.

Re: Re-read week 74: Vertigo 7 - 12

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:33 am
by brasca
Twitcher wrote:Lisa was a megabagadouche to Helen, but Lisa doesn't know Helen like the audience does-- she couldn't possibly understand how much she hurt Helen. Lisa did, however, have a good grasp of what Sara was going through, and says as much... but messes with her anyway on the grounds that it'll be good for her in the long run.


Perhaps. I think if the others knew how badly things were the outcome would have been different, but seeing as how Lisa is so intuitive about people it seems notable that this was the one person other than Cyndi she could not see through. And while Lisa's heart was ultimately in the right place with most of her antics it's not like it was a crucial breakthrough for Sara to realize she was gay. That would've happened sooner or later, but if she could've used those talents of hers to make Helen realize that people's friendship isn't conditional she might not have gone the direction she did.

Re: Re-read week 74: Vertigo 7 - 12

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:05 am
by timemonkey
But how would she do that? Helen basically only accepts being used as a legitimate motivation and didn't start listening to other people instead of blaming them for everything until she was moved over to Something Positive.

Re: Re-read week 74: Vertigo 7 - 12

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:51 pm
by brasca
timemonkey wrote:But how would she do that? Helen basically only accepts being used as a legitimate motivation and didn't start listening to other people instead of blaming them for everything until she was moved over to Something Positive.


I'm not entirely sure, but subtle if not obvious reassurances that she can have an opinion and make mistakes will not lead to ostracizing would be one way to do that. At this point in time Lisa and Sara are not friends, but she still makes her realize some things about herself through her little provocation. I think she could have figured out that Helen's home life was bleak, but she's not her keeper so I do not condemn her for not putting in the effort like she did with others. I just find it notable.

Helen has a problem taking advice largely because her father, a person who should provide reliable criticism when needed is a man who bases love on conditions. Consequently, she has a warped view of criticism and relationships. She's quick to dismiss any good or bad criticism as an indication that she is unfairly persecuted or unwanted and unless she can provide a use that makes her wanted her acceptance will always be timely.

While running away from home was extremely risky it ultimately put her in a situation where she is living with a kindred spirit with a similar background who has no interest in using her. Beyond paying her share of the rent Helen is not obligated to be Nancy's lackey or lover and has the option of leaving at any time even though the other options are none too good. This surrogate mother/sister relationship has steadily improved her outlook.

I'm not sure how she is since the 2 years when she was last seen, but she was mentioned in passing as not showing up to Davan's bachelor party. Sanderson specifically chose Davan's friends who he'd like to sleep with and considering Helen was in the habit of hooking up with Daddy figures shortly after arriving in Boston this could be evidence that she's avoiding that now. Then again a tumble with Sanderson is an improvement over Bob, Elmer, or Skillet. :lol:

Re: Re-read week 74: Vertigo 7 - 12

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:10 am
by timemonkey
Or maybe Sanderson her unappealing.

Re: Re-read week 74: Vertigo 7 - 12

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:19 am
by brasca
timemonkey wrote:Or maybe Sanderson her unappealing.


http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp11202013.shtml

No Sanderson invited Davan's lady friends that he would like to have sex with excluding those that scare him. "Nancy's roommate" who I'm assuming is still Helen was MIA so the implication is she was invited. Moreover, he is not looking for a relationship just a hook up so even if finds Helen's personality off-putting that does not mean he would not screw her if given the chance.