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Re-read week 55: Behind Closed Doors 17 - 22

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:02 pm
by Topic Starter Robot
Behind Closed Doors 17 18 19 20 21 22

Re: Re-read week 55: Behind Closed Doors 17 - 22

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:09 pm
by Alice Macher
#18: Karen, arguably at her most sympathetic since "Weights." Of course, by the end of this chapter she'll be in more familiar scummy territory.

#22: It's hard to believe, in retrospective, that there was a time when Cyndi couldn't wrap nearly anyone, who liked women, around her finger, but there we go.

Re: Re-read week 55: Behind Closed Doors 17 - 22

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:56 pm
by timemonkey
I don't think Cyndi ever hit that kind of influence, she mostly preyed on weakness.

Re: Re-read week 55: Behind Closed Doors 17 - 22

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:12 pm
by CEOIII
And what's weaker than a crying child?

Ah, more fuel for the "MARSHALL'S GAY!" fire. I mean, yeah, we know NOW, but back then the idea that the average teenage boy would, upon seeing his girlfriend step into his shower wearing a big smile and nothing else, react as though his worst enemy just stepped into his shower (whether that enemy was wearing a big smile and nothing else or not I leave up to your collective imaginations) branded Marshall a F.O.D. in a lot of people's eyes.

And this wasn't Karen being manipulative, IMO. She just wanted to fuck her boyfriend.

Re: Re-read week 55: Behind Closed Doors 17 - 22

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:17 pm
by Alice Macher
timemonkey wrote:I don't think Cyndi ever hit that kind of influence, she mostly preyed on weakness.


Hm, yeah, "nearly anyone who liked women" is possibly overstating the case. That said, we did see her turn on a lot of people, albeit not all of them equally as deeply or persistently: Daphne, Stan, Duane, Sara, Jack, Braz. Each one of them different in terms of cognitive intelligence, social confidence, emotional make-up and such. Cyndi, by the time she became a full-fledged character and not a vaguely-defined backgrounder as we see in this arc, was just that good at knowing whose buttons to push.

Re: Re-read week 55: Behind Closed Doors 17 - 22

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:23 pm
by brasca
Alice Macher wrote:#22: It's hard to believe, in retrospective, that there was a time when Cyndi couldn't wrap nearly anyone, who liked women, around her finger, but there we go.


It could be that she was really longing for someone as warped as her, but more than likely it's because she wasn't a fully fleshed out character yet.

Re: Re-read week 55: Behind Closed Doors 17 - 22

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:28 pm
by Doc Harleen
Alice Macher wrote:
timemonkey wrote:I don't think Cyndi ever hit that kind of influence, she mostly preyed on weakness.


Hm, yeah, "nearly anyone who liked women" is possibly overstating the case. That said, we did see her turn on a lot of people, albeit not all of them equally as deeply or persistently: Daphne, Stan, Duane, Sara, Jack, Braz. Each one of them different in terms of cognitive intelligence, social confidence, emotional make-up and such. Cyndi, by the time she became a full-fledged character and not a vaguely-defined backgrounder as we see in this arc, was just that good at knowing whose buttons to push.


If I'm not mistaken, she sort of referred to this later (when Charlotte was holding her captive). It sounded like this was a point in time where she thought she'd die a virgin, because she knew she didn't know how to connected to other people. As you said, later she just learned to manipulate other people, which was fine for her, but this may have been a small window where she felt that something was wrong with her.

On another note, I have to admit that on my first read-through, I didn't consider the full implications of what Karen is about to do to Marshall, but on subsequent read-throughs, it's made me very angry. I want to know - I'm not alone in feeling like she sexually assaulted him/raped him, right?

Re: Re-read week 55: Behind Closed Doors 17 - 22

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:17 pm
by timemonkey
Oh, she totally did. And it's completely ignored.

Daphne, Stan, Duane, Sara, Jack, Braz


I don't quite remember how she played Duane (I remember when and for what purpose, just not her exact manipulation) but the others are simple. Daphne is apparently ridiculously gullible. Jack felt majorly insecure and inferior to Katy Anne and that made him vulnerable. Sara was horny beyond all belief and would have thrown herself and pretty much any hot girl (and pretty much does in the future, anyone who shows perceived interest gets in her head). Braz is easily manipulated by anyone hot, or so it seemed. And Stan is the easiest fo all because he thinks he's smart.

Re: Re-read week 55: Behind Closed Doors 17 - 22

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:26 am
by Adrishiana
That is... pretty super creepy, Charisma! (Assuming my impression that she has a pretty good idea what Karen is thinking is correct.)

This is one point where I sort of wonder if Cyndi was meant, at this stage, to end up as she was.

Re: Re-read week 55: Behind Closed Doors 17 - 22

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:07 am
by LadyObvious23
I do believe she does. Like she's hoping that if he has sex that he'll be less uptight or something. :\ I ain't a fan of Marshall but that kid needs a new mom and to break up with his toxic girlfriend.

And this wasn't Karen being manipulative, IMO. She just wanted to fuck her boyfriend.
Yes because IGNORING HIS NOT WANTING IT isn't being manipulative. IGNORING WHAT HE WANTED isn't....yeah it's fine. After all she just REALLY,really needs it.

Re: Re-read week 55: Behind Closed Doors 17 - 22

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:36 am
by Adrishiana
Doc Harleen wrote:On another note, I have to admit that on my first read-through, I didn't consider the full implications of what Karen is about to do to Marshall, but on subsequent read-throughs, it's made me very angry. I want to know - I'm not alone in feeling like she sexually assaulted him/raped him, right?


Nope!

Re: Re-read week 55: Behind Closed Doors 17 - 22

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:56 pm
by svenman
Alice Macher wrote:#22: It's hard to believe, in retrospective, that there was a time when Cyndi couldn't wrap nearly anyone, who liked women, around her finger, but there we go.

Then again, it might be more of a case of "I can't find anyone who I'd want to do it with". If all the people around you just seem no more important than ants under a magnifying glass, you'll get pretty lonely waiting for someone who makes you swoon.

Re: Re-read week 55: Behind Closed Doors 17 - 22

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:37 pm
by thebitterfig
The other thing which runs through my mind is more that perhaps Cyndi hasn't realised she can just seduce people. Sure, she's a proto-psychopath, but what's a person supposed to do with that? Like at some point with the Bad Pennies, a bulb goes off, and like "Oh hey, this would be easy."

Re: Re-read week 55: Behind Closed Doors 17 - 22

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:53 pm
by Alice Macher
Yes, it seems that the turning point in Cyndi's development--her "start of darkness," as it were--was when Karen recruited her for her "Injustice Gang." It's significant that Karen's reason for doing so is that she considers Cyndi "the Michelle, visual relief and a good follower." This suggests that while Karen did put her to work as a mole within the Pennies, she had little to no idea of Cyndi's true potential for manipulating people. And, now I think of it, this strip suggests that Cyndi still had a bit to learn, given that her "Hey Marshall, look how good I am with the ladies; imagine what I could do for you" ploy fell completely flat. Well, Rome wasn't built in a day. :twisted:

Re: Re-read week 55: Behind Closed Doors 17 - 22

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:00 pm
by brasca
Alice Macher wrote:Yes, it seems that the turning point in Cyndi's development--her "start of darkness," as it were--was when Karen recruited her for her "Injustice Gang." It's significant that Karen's reason for doing so is that she considers Cyndi "the Michelle, visual relief and a good follower." This suggests that while Karen did put her to work as a mole within the Pennies, she had little to no idea of Cyndi's true potential for manipulating people. And, now I think of it, this strip suggests that Cyndi still had a bit to learn, given that her "Hey Marshall, look how good I am with the ladies; imagine what I could do for you" ploy fell completely flat. Well, Rome wasn't built in a day. :twisted:


I thought she was fishing while simultaneously jerking Daphne around for her own amusement. She's good at multi-tasking.