Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

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Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

Postby Topic Starter Robot » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:02 pm

Variety Pack 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
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Re: Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

Postby Tamar » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:05 pm

The last strip is one of my favourites from the whole series. As someone who writes poetry herself, I can identify. :P
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Re: Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

Postby Alice Macher » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:12 pm

Y'know, that just might be the best poem Aggie ever wrote. :twisted:

And yay, Lisa's debut! Check out the mascara. Y'know, Ag, considering in the first two arcs you were piling the makeup on that heavy yourself, I wouldn't be so judgem--ahhh, but we all know they become besties in good time, so 's all good.
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Re: Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

Postby CEOIII » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:04 pm

AG'S A SCORPIO! I'M A SCORPIO!

....course, I don't know much about horoscopes, but still, *I* think it's cool.
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Re: Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

Postby timemonkey » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:23 am

I am also a Scorpio.

I wonder why Aggie assumed Lisa was going to offer her drugs...in the middle of the hall in front of everyone? And instead of trying to fix a problem she thinks is going on at home she's worrying about people in other nations. But the good news is her poetry is much improved, we can only hope she'll maintain that quality from now on! XD



Also, are we covering more strips this update than usual? I thought we were only doing five at a time?
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Re: Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

Postby oddtail » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:36 am

timemonkey wrote:I am also a Scorpio.

I wonder why Aggie assumed Lisa was going to offer her drugs...in the middle of the hall in front of everyone?


Because, as has been shown in the comic on other occasions, Aggie is very impulsive and quick to jump to conclusions, rather mistrustful of people (especially at this point in P&A) and tends to be very judgmental.


__________

On an unrelated note: it still saddens me that pretty much nothing about early Lisa has survived in the character. When Aggie started talking to Lisa for the first time, she certainly reminded me of her in her first appearance. By the time P&A ended... it was not character development (to me), it was a completely different character.

Seeing Lisa's early appearance just reminds me how much I hate "late" Lisa. *pouts*

...and I was *this* close to relating at least a little bit to every character in the comic - I never really bought into Marshall-hate or Stan-hate that I saw in the forums. It was only Helen and Lisa that I honestly didn't like. Except Helen was actually an interesting character (in a "watching a train wreck" sort of way). Lisa... not so much.
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Re: Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

Postby Alice Macher » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:10 am

See, I'm the opposite. I didn't like early Lisa all that much. Not here, mind you, because she hadn't done much of anything yet. Nor in "Pod People," where she did help Aggie out of a self-pitying funk. But in the arc just before that, "Second Looks," she went up to Katy-Ann--who was just minding her own business, singing a song that, while about God, was hardly a "Repent, Ye Sinners" thing--and started making fun of her beliefs. And a bit later, there was also "Undertow," where she acted all churlish to Karen's face before she'd done much of anything yet, and then openly wished Karen had "said something she could rip on." How very pleasant.

No, for me it was the change she gradually underwent starting with "Vertigo" and continuing with "Live Free of Dye" and onward, that made me a Lisa fan. When she was mostly cheerful and upbeat, not angry, alienated and looking to start arguments. When she was still snarky, but in a more affectionate sort of way, and with a view to getting people to face parts of themselves they'd rather not face. At most mischievous, rather than malicious.

And yes, I love the meme-speak. I don't talk that way myself, but so what, I think it's fun. More fun than "Your God terrifies me," "Here's another way [to look at your beliefs]. Woo! Blurry," "Pleasure to bask in your radiance," and all that.
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Re: Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

Postby oddtail » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:38 am

Alice Macher wrote:But in the arc just before that, "Second Looks," she went up to Katy-Ann--who was just minding her own business, singing a song that, while about God, was hardly a "Repent, Ye Sinners" thing--and started making fun of her beliefs. And a bit later, there was also "Undertow," where she acted all churlish to Karen's face before she'd done much of anything yet, and then openly wished Karen had "said something she could rip on." How very pleasant.


Which makes, to me, for an interesting character. I don't exactly agree with Lisa's criticism of K-A, but she made a valid point, she was questioning something. She wasn't exactly doing anything evil. She was just snarky and spoke her mind.

As a result, Lisa was an interesting personality to explore, someone who is not pleasant all the time, but who has their own opinion, their own outlook on life. For me, P&A was always about characters who are flawed, but they are also interesting AND (which is unique to P&A, in many respects) are the heroes of their own story even as others see them as being wrong/bad/stupid/shallow/rude/dull/evil/ugly.

Aggie is an activist nutjob who does not see beyond her designated Meaningful Issues to see the people around her. She's overall a good person (in my opinion), but she's awful when she gets on her soapbox. She doesn't know how to let others be, if they perhaps are not interested in saving Puertorican Pink Porcupines. All in all, a character who is not a "villain", but who does interesting bad things.

Penny's the same way. She's aloof, she certainly has a strong pack mentality, and she considers superficial things to be a Big Deal. Same goes for Stan. He's not too bad, but at the end of the day, he's ultimately selfish. An exploration of a character who's looking out for Number One, but isn't eeeeeeevil (as egocentrical, egoistical characters tend to be portrayed) - that's fun to read about. I could go on, but that's the theme of P&A. The omega girls? Not that good, but you see where they're coming from. Sort of. The literary-minded guy obsessed with the hot blonde? Nice guy, but a ridiculous dweeb.

Early Lisa was someone who had a rather acerbic attitude and wit, who had a rather devil-may-care attitude, and who admitted she preferred to be indifferent and a slacker. The exploration of why Aggie would be friend with someone like that (and the apparent hypocrisy of "Penny is evil because she does not CARE but... uhhhh... Lisa's alright because... copyright is evil?") would have made for some real interesting stories.

A meme-spouting, all-around-nice character who is always either extremely laid-back or a fountain of wisdom is not interesting and, maybe even more importantly, does not fit this particular webcomic. The only other character who comes close to being flawless-thus-boring might be Katy-Ann, but that's just it - Lisa would have made the perfect counterbalance to her, showing that from a certain perspective, K-A's way is not so obviously perfect.

The way I see it, Lisa is not a fleshed-out character in P&A. QUILTBAG may have remedied that - I was interested in the spinoff because I was curious to see if she was salvageable as a character. Alas, she didn't get enough time to convince me she was.

In short - what you see as Lisa's moments of unpleasantness is what I see as "well, this should be interesting in the long run" moments. I hadn't seen a character like that before. A meme-spouting character whose main personality trait is "quirky" - that I have seen a few times too many.
Last edited by oddtail on Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

Postby sun tzu » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:06 am

1)Mrs. Levac...Are you pulling Penny's leg? I have trouble believing you're this dense.
2)The first meeting of Aggie and Lisa...Nnnnnot Aggie's finest hour.
3)Aggie, the only proper use of horoscopes is as toiler paper. OK? OK.
4)I still don't get the pimple thing.
5)"A tree. It be." Still cracks me up. :lol:
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Re: Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

Postby oddtail » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:08 am

sun tzu wrote:4)I still don't get the pimple thing.


Neither do I, to be honest.

My theory is - Penny doesn't want to go to school because she's embarrassed to not look perfect (that part is pretty clear). But then, she decides it'd be more embarrassing to endure her father's mocking regarding the cat's thermometer. And since he knows she was trying to fake being ill and seems to have a lot of snarky "ammunition", it'd probably be a looooong day for Penny if she stayed home.
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Re: Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

Postby Trefle » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:22 am

sun tzu wrote:4)I still don't get the pimple thing.

Pimples are hell. Especially for someone whose power relies on their beauty... (Although...she should have some major makeup skills to AT LEAST reduce the redness)

I basically echo the rest of you except oddtail's sentiment on Lisa...
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Re: Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

Postby Lia S » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:58 pm

I think it’s not actually the cat’s thermometer, but her response to believing for a moment that she had had something in her mouth that had previously been in the other side of the cat was enough to verify that she was faking, which he suspected because of the pimple.
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Re: Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

Postby brasca » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:47 pm

sun tzu wrote:1)Mrs. Levac...Are you pulling Penny's leg? I have trouble believing you're this dense.
2)The first meeting of Aggie and Lisa...Nnnnnot Aggie's finest hour.
3)Aggie, the only proper use of horoscopes is as toiler paper. OK? OK.
4)I still don't get the pimple thing.
5)"A tree. It be." Still cracks me up. :lol:


1. In Mrs. Levac's defense most parents are clueless about trends although I am amazed that Ugg boots are still popular 8 years after this strip was first written.

2. Agreed although if Lisa was laying it on heavy with the eye shadow and Aggie is clueless about drug abuse I can understand it.

3. I chalk this up to Aggie's character not being that fully fleshed out because while Aggie is spiritual she's far too intelligent to be putting stock in astrology. This was back when she was more of a mopey hippy activist than intellectual.

4. The pimple thing makes sense when you consider how much she values her appearance. What I don't understand is why she went to school seeing as how most people would throw up if they learned the thermometer was previously up a cat's butt. Vomiting would make her story more credible.

5. Unless poetry is crafted into a good song it's as much use to me as astrology or philosophy for that matter.
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Re: Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

Postby retrophrenologist » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:26 pm

brasca wrote:1. In Mrs. Levac's defense most parents are clueless about trends although I am amazed that Ugg boots are still popular 8 years after this strip was first written.

I'm amazed that ugg boots were ever popular. Ugg boots go with MULLETS, people.
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Re: Re-read week 20: Variety Pack 8 - 14

Postby thebitterfig » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:39 pm

The notes of this paradoxalist do not end here, however. He could not refrain from going on with them, but it seems to us that we may stop here. - Fyodor Dostoevsky, Notes from Underground (trans. C. Garnett)
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