Politics!

[Valerie]

Yup, politics. Just in general.

I figure we talk about political stuff so much that we might as well have one thread to update each other, link articles, discuss things, etc. (That doesn't mean you can't make another thread if something important comes up. I'm not the boss, y'know.)

So let's start off with this. It's an article about how Romney has apparently committed perjury. Any thoughts on that?

Disclaimer: I generally dislike anything that starts with "____ Won't Tell You" and ends in something scandalous. Buuut the last time I saw something like this about Romney, it was the 47% video, and that turned out to be real, so...

Crazy conspiracy theory time! (This might get offensive, so there's your warning.) It turns out ROMNEY is the Anti-Christ. It makes sense. He's clearly evil on some level, whatever that word may mean to you, and people are crazy about him anyway and follow him loyally. Soon, Jesus will come down and high-five Obama and they'll defeat Romney, and then all the people who rejected the more hateful parts of the Bible will get into Heaven because-- PLOT TWIST-- the Bible was just a test! God wanted to see if we would do what He said or if we would do what's right. So everyone parading around about gay marriage being a sin failed completely, and all the heathens who were for gay rights passed.

[Captain LeBubbles]

Crazy conspiracy theory time! (This might get offensive, so there's your warning.) It turns out ROMNEY is the Anti-Christ. It makes sense. He's clearly evil on some level, whatever that word may mean to you, and people are crazy about him anyway and follow him loyally. Soon, Jesus will come down and high-five Obama and they'll defeat Romney, and then all the people who rejected the more hateful parts of the Bible will get into Heaven because-- PLOT TWIST-- the Bible was just a test! God wanted to see if we would do what He said or if we would do what's right. So everyone parading around about gay marriage being a sin failed completely, and all the heathens who were for gay rights passed.

I'm convinced Romney and the Republican party (the more extreme ones, anyway) are a bunch of trolls, for the same reason that I have to believe that My Immortal was written by a troll; because if they aren't, then I have to believe that these are real people who really feel like this and really think this way and I lose all hope (well, a lot of hope) for humanity.

[brasca]

Romney is the best of the Republican lot including Ron Paul although I respect him above everyone else. I think Paul dangerously naive, but at least he's genuine. The best case scenario is Romney if elected president will do most of the things Obama has been doing and simply take credit for the recovery. I would hate to award him for things he didn't do, but it wouldn't be the worst presidency if he just rebranded everything. The worst case scenario is he will try to gamble everything again on deregulation and tax cuts and plunge this country into an abyss no one will be able to pull us out of. I want to think Romney is too shrewd to do this, but he's been all over the map so much I don't know what he really wants to do.

[mindstalk]

Don't forget starting a war with Iran!

Plus, what can one expect of someone who repeatedly says Iran is landlocked?

[oddtail]

Since this is a thread about politics in general, I'll share a general outsider's observation, if I may.

I notice that Democrats/Republicans (and I mean not just the politicians, but also the voters) tend to portray leaders/members/supporters of the opposite party as evil incarnate. My personal leanings make me strongly favour Democrats for a number of reasons, but the worst I've seen Republican politicians do were some bad decisions, some stupid statements (and honestly, if what you say is followed so closely, you WILL eventually slip up and say something moronic), a bias in the media that they influence and a much more morality-informed-by-the-Bible-read-very-conservatively. I don't see anything that Republican politicians do in the spotlight as THAT stupid, evil or weird (this goes double for Democrats, whose policies and ideas I favour, but I don't feel a particular need to defend them). I admit, from my perspective Democrats and Republicans are fairly similar parties, so I don't feel American voters have much of a choice. But as much as I don't like Republican hate-mongering and accusations against those more on the political left, I feel like the other side should know better. And attacks against Republicans are often just as vicious and unreasonable, only they seem - to use a metaphor - to be sometimes said in a softer, quieter voice, almost as if to make them SEEM more balanced and rational.

To illustrate: there was once this political comic by the creator of Ozy and Millie. I think it was called "I drew this" or something. When I first read it, I found it to be hilarious and to the point. In later years, not so much, it seemed more like picking at straws and rather hateful bickering.

This is in no ways meant as an attack and, well, I do dislike the Republican ideas and policies quite strongly. It just fills me with a mixture of amazement and amusement how vitriolic Democrats' supporters are and how they often emulate the aggressive Republican discourse which, quite frankly, is what I consider the worst sin of right-wing politics anywhere in the world. Yes, worse than even the worst policy. When left-leaning people do the same, it just seems out of place for some reason (perhaps because there is usually no claim of absolute, divine truth that the right-winged thought can draw from, but I dunno).

Yes, this post is rather incoherent and lacks any real substance. I could, in fact, sum it up with one sentence: what is THAT bad about Republican politicians? (this is mostly a rhetorical question, y'all may consider this post as mostly thinking out loud)

EDIT: and I know demonizing people you don't agree with, particularly politicians, is a constant everywhere. It's only natural. But honestly, the difference between Republicans and Democrats in policies and ideas is not that shockingly huge a gap. USA has no hard-core, radical left-wing or right-wing parties with any claim to power, both major parties are what I'd describe as "meh, centric".

[Zanosuke Kurosaki]

Oh, man... not sure where to start there, oddtail.

Okay, here's one very glaring difference between the two parties. The Republican party's attitude towards women: Casually misogynistic ranging towards hardcore misogynistic. Women should be seen, not heard. If something bad happened to a woman, well maybe she shouldn't have done something to provoke it. Abortion? No I don't care that you were raped you slut, you're not destroying that life even though you're only a few weeks along! Women should be in the kitchen cooking for the man and his buddies, then in the bedroom making babies, not in jobs that only a MAN can do.

Now, even though I am exaggerating with (some of) my words... I am not at all exaggerating with the attitudes behind these words. The Republican party is still, on many levels, stuck back in the "values" and ideals of the 1950s of the United States. This is a very bad thing, as that was an era of superficial "good, wholesome times", which they're waxing nostalgic over, while ignoring the way men used to hit their wives like it was nothing, the racial segregation, and the attitudes of fear towards that which was different. So there's another glaring difference between the parties - the majority of the Republican party, and the majority of its supporters, are still somewhat mentally stuck in a time period that was over 52 years ago.

Difference number three. The Republican party, and many of its supporters, purport to be Christian. And yet when anyone, Republican or Democrat, tries to put forth a program designed to give a little assistance to those that need aid, like the poor, the homeless, the sick - "It's communist! It's a socialist program! GOD is against this! They should be working for a living, not letting the government give them everything!" Despite, y'know the words of Jesus Christ, the man whose name and word they purport to follow and live by, about "What you do to the least of your brethren, you also do to me." See also his words about visiting and tending to the poor, the sick, the needy, those imprisoned, and watch the stunning hypocrisy of the majority of this party. Heck, it could be turned into a drinking game, or even a bingo game (for bonus points, use tears of rage to mark spots when you get them.)

See, here's the sad thing, too. Yes, "conserving" is a wonderful idea and practice. It's just a shame that they're conserving the wrong things, and being a bunch of stubborn, dried-up old men, to boot. The Republican party needs a wholesale change a LOT more than the Democratic party does (hint: they could stand to show a lot more backbone than they have.)

[Alice Macher]

I agree that demonizing one's ideological opponents, as opposed to rebutting their ideas, is wrong. However, it's hardly unique to American politics. American political rhetoric (or what passes for it) gets the lion's share of attention in the international press because America is (for now) the most powerful and influential nation on Earth, because its presidential election campaigns (with all the primaries and conventions and debates) are more drawn-out than those of pretty much any other country, and because it holds (partial) Congressional elections every two years instead of every four years as with the parliamentary/legislature elections in many other countries. So there's a steady flow of material to report on. But take any country with reasonably free elections, and you'll find the same degree of exaggerating the other's positions and the same degree of ad hominem attacks. We all simply get to hear about the American stuff more.

[Trefle]

True, a lot of politics are the same. At least this one non-American can attest that.
In my country, our elections are judged mostly based on, because a lot of our social/moral/political compass are pretty similar inbetween parties (pretty conservative. There will be no discussion about gay marriage-- nay, gay rights, until quite a long time, if my pessimism were to be asked)

And due to that.....they tend to be vague, and even more nondescript. Instead all you got was vague promises like, "we're going to eliminate corruption. We're going to banish famine. We're going to improve our economy."
And so it was judged based on the candidates themselves. >__> <__<

[Captain LeBubbles]

Trefle, I forget, where are you from again?

[Pink Freud]

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/10 ... -mourdock/

This guy would not have the guts to say something like this ten years ago, but he can do it without fear now. Why is this?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... tates.html

The reasons behind this are blatantly obvious, but still they keep trying, and are not afraid of backlash in the slightest. Why is this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/2 ... r=Politics

Do I even need to say anything about this woman? She's been doing this shit for years, for the same reason, with no remorse. Why is this?

Because every single one of them knows that the people they are appealing to by doing these things don't care about responsibility, about peoples' rights, don't want to know anything outside of their own tiny little world, and are completely happy to support and parrot anything anyone says against the democratic party lead by the dark man in the white house. These politicians pander to the religious, and not even religious "nuts", just normal people working professional jobs that go to church every Sunday because their parents indoctrinated them into it as children and they don't know any different. Don't want to know any different. These politicians know that there are millions who will vote for them and believe whatever lies they make up - which they seem to do constantly, lately - merely by tossing the word "God" into their speeches a few times and peppering it with some cheap fear tactics. They prey on the ignorant and weak-minded to further their own interests and the interests of the billionaires that support them with Super PAC money. They are evil, selfish, and perfectly willing to throw every low-to-average income american under a bus to make themselves ten more bucks by tricking people into voting against their own self-interests.

'Why do we demonize them? Because they're fucking demonic.

[Valerie]

Crazy conspiracy theory time! (This might get offensive, so there's your warning.) It turns out ROMNEY is the Anti-Christ. It makes sense. He's clearly evil on some level, whatever that word may mean to you, and people are crazy about him anyway and follow him loyally. Soon, Jesus will come down and high-five Obama and they'll defeat Romney, and then all the people who rejected the more hateful parts of the Bible will get into Heaven because-- PLOT TWIST-- the Bible was just a test! God wanted to see if we would do what He said or if we would do what's right. So everyone parading around about gay marriage being a sin failed completely, and all the heathens who were for gay rights passed.

I'm convinced Romney and the Republican party (the more extreme ones, anyway) are a bunch of trolls, for the same reason that I have to believe that My Immortal was written by a troll; because if they aren't, then I have to believe that these are real people who really feel like this and really think this way and I lose all hope (well, a lot of hope) for humanity.

That's my other theory. This is all an elaborate prank, and the day before election day, Romney will annouce that it was all a joke, laughing hysterically while saying, "I can't believe you all thought I was SERIOUS!"

[thebitterfig]

What gets me most about Romney is the astonishing dishonesty. All politicians bend and stretch, they'll put a positive or negative spin on things, but Romney and today's Republican party on the whole is a step beyond anything I'd ever seen. Romney's repeated lines about Obama's "apology tour" is a great, straightforward example. Or the line he used to use about how the President had ended the work requirements in welfare. I mean, just straight up bullshit out of nowhere with no relationship to any actual reality. When Obama and his supporters talk about how Romney's tax plan will raise taxes on the middle class, that's somewhat of a stretch. I tend to think Romney would either not pay for the tax cuts like he'd say or just have smaller paid-for cut, rather than actually raising taxes. However, it's mostly a rhetorical flourish which highlights, quite clearly, that the math doesn't add up in any way. I've really never seen anything like the depths of dishonesty from today's Republican leadership.

Which isn't to say there isn't a place for conservatives. I just wish we had some, instead of far right wingnuts. Maine tried a few times to nominate Peter Mills for governor, who's my concept of a sane Republican. I mean, the Tree of Liberty needs some pruning every now and then by rational conservatives, a little scaling back to ensure the health of the whole, but also allow new growth where needed. Instead of someone who'd trim practically and who doesn't deny the fundamental humanity of LGBT folks, Republicans nominated an utterly inexperienced Creationist of a High School bio teacher in Woodcock, followed by a thuggish bully and slash-and-burner of government in LePage.

EDIT: and I know demonizing people you don't agree with, particularly politicians, is a constant everywhere. It's only natural. But honestly, the difference between Republicans and Democrats in policies and ideas is not that shockingly huge a gap. USA has no hard-core, radical left-wing or right-wing parties with any claim to power, both major parties are what I'd describe as "meh, centric".

Honestly though, today's GOP, particularly the Tea Party, is pretty far right wing. No way dominionists or gold bugs are remotely "meh, centric." When you want to eliminate all government assistance of any kind, nearly all regulation on business, and enforce an interpretation of Biblical law, that's radical-right - and a disturbingly high proportion of Republicans. Paul Ryan, for example, is the nominee for Vice President. He favors defining date rape and sexual assault without physical coercion out of legal status, near-on elimination of any public health provisions, privatize Social Security (government pensions for the elderly, for those from away), and slash housing and food assistance.* I don't understand the concept of right wing if Paul Ryan doesn't embody it. If you don't see a huge gap, I honestly think it's more because Dems are mostly centrist. Obama incredibly so, and Clinton was as well. Haven't seen a liberal Democrat in the White House since Carter.

Oh, and Romney isn't the Anti-Christ. Ronald Reagan was the Devil. Huey Freeman told me. http://video.adultswim.com/the-boondock ... g-man.html

* Despite all that, Ryan claims to be inspired by Thomas Aquinas, which makes twelve kinds of no sense if you know anything about Catholic social justice teachings. Goes back to the fundamental dishonesty thing above.

[Hexr]

Crazy conspiracy theory time! (This might get offensive, so there's your warning.) It turns out ROMNEY is the Anti-Christ. It makes sense. He's clearly evil on some level, whatever that word may mean to you, and people are crazy about him anyway and follow him loyally. Soon, Jesus will come down and high-five Obama and they'll defeat Romney, and then all the people who rejected the more hateful parts of the Bible will get into Heaven because-- PLOT TWIST-- the Bible was just a test! God wanted to see if we would do what He said or if we would do what's right. So everyone parading around about gay marriage being a sin failed completely, and all the heathens who were for gay rights passed.

I'm convinced Romney and the Republican party (the more extreme ones, anyway) are a bunch of trolls, for the same reason that I have to believe that My Immortal was written by a troll; because if they aren't, then I have to believe that these are real people who really feel like this and really think this way and I lose all hope (well, a lot of hope) for humanity.

My Immortal? Why would it be troll?
EDIT:\\ Oh, you're talking about a fanfic, it seems. Forgive me for derailing.
Oh, and now that I've derailed anyway... if you click the link I posted, be sure to read the top comment. It got a chuckle out of me.

[Captain LeBubbles]

Crazy conspiracy theory time! (This might get offensive, so there's your warning.) It turns out ROMNEY is the Anti-Christ. It makes sense. He's clearly evil on some level, whatever that word may mean to you, and people are crazy about him anyway and follow him loyally. Soon, Jesus will come down and high-five Obama and they'll defeat Romney, and then all the people who rejected the more hateful parts of the Bible will get into Heaven because-- PLOT TWIST-- the Bible was just a test! God wanted to see if we would do what He said or if we would do what's right. So everyone parading around about gay marriage being a sin failed completely, and all the heathens who were for gay rights passed.

I'm convinced Romney and the Republican party (the more extreme ones, anyway) are a bunch of trolls, for the same reason that I have to believe that My Immortal was written by a troll; because if they aren't, then I have to believe that these are real people who really feel like this and really think this way and I lose all hope (well, a lot of hope) for humanity.

My Immortal? Why would it be troll?
EDIT:\\ Oh, you're talking about a fanfic, it seems. Forgive me for derailing.
Oh, and now that I've derailed anyway... if you click the link I posted, be sure to read the top comment. It got a chuckle out of me.

I thought everyone knew about My Immortal! I recommend finding the nearest dramatic reading of it post-haste, it's quite funny. In fact, here, this is the best one. (Also lol top comment)

And in an intent to seem ot, seconding what everyone else said. There's definitely a place in government for conservatism, but there's not a place for de-humanizing huge chunks of the population, which is what our Republican leaders seem hellbent on doing.

[Valerie]

[post full of amazing]

'Why do we demonize them? Because they're fucking demonic.

Pink, I love so you hard I can't even you just omg yes love *applause*