5/23/2012 This has to be the last time.

[Artemisia]

Well, we don't really need all these children. . .plus they tend to be too fatty to really eat.

[Zanosuke Kurosaki]

Well, we don't really need all these children. . .plus they tend to be too fatty to really eat.

And they make lousy labor until they hit about pre-teen age (even then, not nearly as useful as teenagers.)

[Alice Macher]

There's research showing that the most enthusiastically opposed to homosexually often have homosexual responses themselves.

That research, in particular the interpretation thereof, has been extensively called into question.

[brasca]

edit: Also, holy fucksticks, you guys. Any other day there'd be maybe three, four posts made all day, then I go away and come back to three whole pages?

Oh, you weren't here back when... you ain't seen nothin'.

Mr. Brightside speaks the truth. Back in 2008-2009, when "The Popsicle War" was running, threads of 20+ pages were a frequent occurrence. Not for each and every comic, mind, but it was common. If there'd been a comic update thread of only three pages then, T probably would've wondered whether we'd all (God forbid) died or something.

Now granted, the longest threads were generally due to three or four posters (who've long since moved on) that would get into one of those extended arguments with each other. You know, the kind where every last phrase of the previous post is quoted and commented on with an obsessive thoroughness normally reserved for Talmud study.

Ah, but I'm woolgathering...zzzz... Uh! Nurse, is it time for my carrot mash?

Those were the days. I still remember keeping the Helen thread going to the point that was over 20 pages. Good times. There's too much fairness now. I'd say Iseul has enough supporters as she does detractors. That's why I'm not as eager to jump to her defense like I used to.

[Zanosuke Kurosaki]

edit: Also, holy fucksticks, you guys. Any other day there'd be maybe three, four posts made all day, then I go away and come back to three whole pages?

Oh, you weren't here back when... you ain't seen nothin'.

Mr. Brightside speaks the truth. Back in 2008-2009, when "The Popsicle War" was running, threads of 20+ pages were a frequent occurrence. Not for each and every comic, mind, but it was common. If there'd been a comic update thread of only three pages then, T probably would've wondered whether we'd all (God forbid) died or something.

Now granted, the longest threads were generally due to three or four posters (who've long since moved on) that would get into one of those extended arguments with each other. You know, the kind where every last phrase of the previous post is quoted and commented on with an obsessive thoroughness normally reserved for Talmud study.

Ah, but I'm woolgathering...zzzz... Uh! Nurse, is it time for my carrot mash?

Those were the days. I still remember keeping the Helen thread going to the point that was over 20 pages. Good times. There's too much fairness now. I'd say Iseul has enough supporters as she does detractors. That's why I'm not as eager to jump to her defense like I used to.

If it helps, I think Leah should be tarred and feathered, and pranced around the campus square.

[mindstalk]

There's research showing that the most enthusiastically opposed to homosexually often have homosexual responses themselves.

That research, in particular the interpretation thereof, has been extensively called into question.

Most of that's about dubious application to child molester cases -- without even making explicit the distinction between opportunistic molesters (child as convenient sex toy) and true pedophiles (real attraction to pre-pubescent children.) There's some doubt cast on the homophobia interpretation but it's about a paragraph.

The closeted homophobes argument also points to how often such people talk about homosexuality being a choice, and particularly about how attractive gay sex supposedly is. When a man goes on about the magical converting powers of anal sex, one has to wonder...

[phagocyte]

has anyone suggested she could be bi yet

or that she could be perfectly in love with her husband but still full of lesbiotic desires

anyway i support all instances of lesbianism, especially the dirty, rushed motel room kind

[phagocyte]

edit: wow I began typing another response but really screwed up the quoting, now i don't even remember what i was going to say, sorry. can i delete this?

[brasca]

edit: Also, holy fucksticks, you guys. Any other day there'd be maybe three, four posts made all day, then I go away and come back to three whole pages?

Oh, you weren't here back when... you ain't seen nothin'.

Mr. Brightside speaks the truth. Back in 2008-2009, when "The Popsicle War" was running, threads of 20+ pages were a frequent occurrence. Not for each and every comic, mind, but it was common. If there'd been a comic update thread of only three pages then, T probably would've wondered whether we'd all (God forbid) died or something.

Now granted, the longest threads were generally due to three or four posters (who've long since moved on) that would get into one of those extended arguments with each other. You know, the kind where every last phrase of the previous post is quoted and commented on with an obsessive thoroughness normally reserved for Talmud study.

Ah, but I'm woolgathering...zzzz... Uh! Nurse, is it time for my carrot mash?

Those were the days. I still remember keeping the Helen thread going to the point that was over 20 pages. Good times. There's too much fairness now. I'd say Iseul has enough supporters as she does detractors. That's why I'm not as eager to jump to her defense like I used to.

If it helps, I think Leah should be tarred and feathered, and pranced around the campus square.

Just not the same. While I felt some sympathy for Karen I couldn't defend her because everything she did was social advancement at the expense of others. And while I thought Cyndi couldn't be as evil as people claimed she was I didn't really defend her. There might be a reason why Leah is particularly hostile to people like Lisa. Maybe she got burned by a girl who was experimenting once, but I think she really just pushed Lisa away just to sleep with Sara. The only time I feel like entering the fray is when it gets really hyperbolic. Leah isn't a nice person, but she's not the epitome of evil.

[Doc Harleen]

Just a question in regard to the playful theorizing that Elizabeth is the mother of one of the new characters in Quiltbag... Aren't Lisa and Sara at a university outside of Belleville? What state is Belleville supposed to be in, and where is the university supposed to be, anyway?

Also, Elizabeth looks younger than Iseul. As much as I don't approve of infidelity, I will say that I am completely interested in their backstory.

[Freemage]

BunnyThor, actually, it can end up being like that. She may have done everything that she could to convince herself that she loved him even though she is little more than really good friends with him, and trust me, it is going to be incredibly complicated no matter what.

It can be like that, but what I see in this forum are automatically jumping to the conclusion that it is like that, as if sexual preference is binary for everyone and that "not completely straight" automatically equates to "completely gay". Actually, I sort of think less of this forum for so reflexively jumping to that conclusion on such a small piece of evidence.

But I think that something we all can agree on is that this is unquestionably Theo's fault for not keeping his woman in line, am I right?

Actually, I ran through the reasoning for it--namely, there's two broad alternatives at play in here:

1: Isuel is a lesbian (or near enough to fully lesbian as to make no practical difference). In this case, she's simply unable to be satisfied sexually with Theo, and her cheating is the result of her inability to resist basic biological demands.

2: Isuel is solidly in the bisexual range on the spectrum. In this case, she's at least theoretically capable of being satisfied with Theo, but has chosen a far more destructive path of falling into a same-sex affair.

Now, I've indicated further that I believe this is a cyclic affair, based on the "This is the last time" dialogue in the strip. Cyclic affairs are most common when some need is genuinely not being met, which can ONLY be satisfied by stepping outside the marriage. If Isuel were simply a non-monogomous bisexual, she'd be far more likely to simply be cheating outright, and not trying to end it repeatedly. Thus, it seems more likely that she's a lesbian, unable to be satisfied sexually by a person she views as her romantic partner, and thus torn.

Honestly, if there was ever a couple that would benefit from Dan Savage, this is them. The best possible outcome is him accepting her physical needs (and possibly, being given similar license) while they remain a committed couple who work together to raise their daughter, and then decide where to go from there.

[NobodySpecial]

Predicted T. Twist:

Elizabeth is a teacher.

[FlyingFish]

Now, I've indicated further that I believe this is a cyclic affair, based on the "This is the last time" dialogue in the strip. Cyclic affairs are most common when some need is genuinely not being met, which can ONLY be satisfied by stepping outside the marriage. If Isuel were simply a non-monogamous bisexual, she'd be far more likely to simply be cheating outright, and not trying to end it repeatedly. Thus, it seems more likely that she's a lesbian, unable to be satisfied sexually by a person she views as her romantic partner, and thus torn.

Possible, but hardly a guarantee. There are categories of unfulfilled needs other than sexual; not every cyclic affair is same-sex. It may be that Elizabeth makes Iseul feel appreciated in some way Theo doesn't, or that Iseul just plain gets bored with the humdrum of suburban married life and Elizabeth offers an exciting (and extra-taboo!) escape.

[LookingIn]

Can someone do me a favor and link the P&A strip where her sexual history is related to Sara? I looked for it but couldn't find it.

Any I have been thinking about this all day and frankly if this doesn't mesh with others then so be it but I really feel sorry for her for her past experiences and sympathise with her for having to live a life of frustration and denial but what she is doing to Theo is unjust and unforgivable. Even if her reasons are valid in that she can no longer deny her sexuality, she should have come to Theo and talked things over with him- if she is truely a bisexual or a lesbian then he seems like the kind of person who would support and defend her despite his own reputation, image, honor, etc. Theo deserves the truth and nothing less than the truth, to hide an affair and then lie to him is just taking advantage of him.

As to her and her daughter, she should apologize to Sara for her actions in the past. We know this already but the fact that there may be stronger reasoning why she was acting that way before only strenghtens the need to apologize and hope Sara is able to accept it despite the lapse in time.

OK venting over, slinking back to the background and watching the fireworks...

[LookingIn]

Predicted T. Twist:

Elizabeth is a teacher.

Coworker of Aggie's father or someone newly arrived since they graduated with no ties to the P&A crew?