Off-topic: Race.

[Bardlp]

Here's another potential article title containing a metaphor. Let me know if this one is offensive:

Gay Black Male: Not everyone thinks you're a diva on a runway.

Actually, I'd be pretty happy if people stopped thinking that gay men's self-identification meant growing a drama-queen fashionista personality like some kind of melanoma. Kind of another topic, though.

Why so defensive?

[Valerie]

I think it's odd to take offense to the idea that someone who isn't aware of something should be told about it. My husband is diabetic. I can have all the sugar I want. But he is disadvantaged in that area, and it makes his life easier if I learn about his situation.

This is the same thing. It isn't "You suck and should feel bad." It's "This person's life is different from yours and here is why and here is something you can do to be considerate of those differences."

[LookingIn]

My great-great-great-grandfather was a Dakota, which makes me Native American by Elizabeth Warren's standards (*rimshot!*) That's its own subtopic: how much of your ancestry has to be of X ethnicity to make you "qualify" as "an X"? Who or what defines those standards? Does it matter?

Warren's claims have been proven by by a Cherokee geneologist to be bogus- she doesn't have any in her and if she did it is hidden by family lore that can't be verified by records.


My grandmother's family has native american blood in them. My aunt and mother once mentioned it but never made any claims to being a member of any tribe. My great grandparents never talked about the blood in either one of them as we were never told about it offhand by one of my mother's cousins...so to me if I were to claim to be native american I would be claiming something that I don't really deserve to claim as my family has considered ourselves to be one thing and one thing only: Chelseans. From our hometown. Nothing more, nothing less.
My uncle aparently is actually a believer in claiming ancestry as he has stated on numerous occassions that since I was his godson I was Puerto Rican, that I was more than blood- I was his family. I may be "white" but to him and his relatives I was one of them and can claim to be what they are. I haven't done that, although he has continued to joke about it because I was always the one relative who took any interest in hearing what he had to say about his birthplace and some of their traditions.

[mindstalk]

Trefle, may I ask what country you live in?

Indonesia. mindstalk is quite close.

Huh, guess that makes sense. I hear a lot more about Chinese/Malay problems but then I know a Chinese person from Malaysia.

[mindstalk]

It's offensive right off the bat, (white males can only understand things put to them through the metaphor of video games, white males need to be 'educated' because they're 'too privileged') but as everyone knows you can't be racist towards white people. Kick them in the face again until they behave.

That's pretty much a total load of BS.

"white males can only understand... video games": Nope. Obviously not the case, since white male Scalzi is inventing the metaphor of video games here. Plenty of white males have understood their privilege without it. But plenty haven't, and so it's another metaphor, to try to reach them.

"everyone knows you can't be racist towards white people": Gee, did he ever say that?

One can certainly be racist to white people. But in our society the problem of that is insignificant compared to other directions of racism.

[Otaking]

One can certainly be racist to white people. But in our society the problem of that is insignificant compared to other directions of racism.

I'll give you the insignificant part relative to other problems concerning ethnicity so let's talk about problems that are actually significant relative to racism. Problems such as dwindling biodiversity and the fact that people are using 1.5 earths worth of renewable resources every year. Problems such as the lack of a nationalized medical database, which would be a huge boon to not only receiving care but could be used for long term empirical studies of care. Yet the national attention is eaten up with horseshit just like this. Scalzi writing racist articles isn't helping any real problem and even if it were aimed at a real problem, two wrongs don't make a right.

I think it's odd to take offense to the idea that someone who isn't aware of something should be told about it. My husband is diabetic. I can have all the sugar I want. But he is disadvantaged in that area, and it makes his life easier if I learn about his situation.

This is the same thing. It isn't "You suck and should feel bad." It's "This person's life is different from yours and here is why and here is something you can do to be considerate of those differences."

It absolutely is not the same thing, because while you can avoid keeping sugar in the house, I can't avoid keeping real or imagined privilege in the white race. It's something individuals don't have control over. If Scalzi wrote his article targeted at a political body instead it might make more sense...nope...SWMs just need to quit taking their privileges for granted is what those arrogant SWMs need to do yessir. Racist.

Scalzi also didn't actually offer anything constructive to do, he just pointed out that their life is theoretically easier in the U.S. The implication being that SWMs are generally assholes because they don't realize this and need someone to condescend to instruct them of this with a video game metaphor. Condescending attitudes are indeed offensive. Note the article was titled Straight White Male...not Some Straight White Males or Arrogantly Clueless Straight White Males...nope..all of em....except for Scalzi himself I'm sure because he's an enlightened thinker that can troll other whites or get pats on the back by flipping their guilt switch.

I didn't see any suggestions from him like I don't know, quit our jobs, publicly eat dirt, give all our money away to minorities. Even if I did do these things people would still continue to talk about white privilege and nothing would change other than the fact that I sacrificed my and my wife's life for some author's idea to troll. Perhaps instead I'm supposed to go up to black people and tell them, "Hey man I'm sorry your life is so much harder than mine would you like a hug?" If I were black and some white dude did that to me I'm pretty sure I would hit them....for being condescending.

Why so defensive?

It's a racist article. That's ok though because it's ok to be racist against whites. In our society white racism is insignificant compared to other directions of racism.

[Otaking]

Here's another potential article title containing a metaphor. Let me know if this one is offensive:

Gay Black Male: Not everyone thinks you're a diva on a runway.



Actually, I'd be pretty happy if people stopped thinking that gay men's self-identification meant growing a drama-queen fashionista personality like some kind of melanoma. Kind of another topic, though.

So I guess an article titled "Gay Black Male: Not everyone thinks you're a diva on a runway" would offend you, and yet you think I'm overly defensive about about an article titled: "Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is" ?

Really?

[svenman]

Been working on a post on the situation in Germany but it's taking me too long to finish right now. Conveniently there's a "save draft" option in the forum software, so I'll continue to work on it some other time.

As for now, I've posted the link before (in my very first post in this forum, actually), but because it fits so well in this thread I'll post it again:

Tim Minchin: Prejudice

[oddtail]

For what it's worth, I agree with Otaking in that I have a problem with the article. I find it both condescending and pointless.

For bonus points, I don't like the word "privilege", but it might have to do with that I only recently learnt certain connotations and uses of the word. I might get used to it eventually.

[Trefle]

Huh, guess that makes sense. I hear a lot more about Chinese/Malay problems but then I know a Chinese person from Malaysia.

Oof. They had similar problems too in Malaysia? D:

A lot of Indonesian people looked Malay, actually; but then, there are matters of ethnicity...

About the article, I dunno;
I think it's both; he indeed sounded...condescending. (It was reposted in Kotaku). Condescending in that stereotypically 'Internet nerd' way of badly (unsubtly, rudely) shaming and guilt-tripping and attacking the reader's personality and totality because "DUDE, YOU SUCKS FOR [insert anything here]. (and I'm enlightened and being smarter than you so let me ENLIGHTEN YOU AND YOU SHALL LISTEN YOU UNEDUCATED BEINGS)." Generalizing. And the way he puts his points across leaves no apparent point for argument.....and can be awkwardly meant as something else (see the comment in Kotaku, when someone complained because "gender imbalance what is gender imbalance and privilege I HAVE SUCKY LIFE AND YOU CALL THOSE BLACK WOMEN SUFFERING!?)

But I'll be honest, his metaphor sounds quite apt. And he raises some good points.

I'll take it like most videogame reviews and comments I had; good points, but dearest God(s/esses), why must you be so....patronizing?

[Lia S]

Sometimes attempts to compensate for inequality go so far that they become opposite direction racism, and I also think calling all of SWM the lowest difficulty includes too many people who have very difficult lives (and who are more likely to encounter that opposite racism, too...). People mistaking such exceptions for the rule leads to difficulties getting rid of racism. Saying exactly this once made a webcomic artist who I will not name assume I'm SWM - there are idiots who prefer assuming over reading on my side of the fence too.

Maybe "straight white male" should really be "able with able relatives, lower middle class and up, straight, white, male". Or maybe not. Whether or not there is an exception to "SWMs have it easier" really depends on where you are and what you want to do.

I think it's better to make good education available to everyone and to make sure people don't grow up separated by race, but I understand such scaaaaary "socialism" is unacceptable in many countries and then artificial reverse racism is pretty much the only thing one can do to compensate for racism and the effects of past racism. Artificial racism is not the right solution to anything, but if the right solution (respecting the human right to education) is considered unacceptable then I don't really see the point in arguing the details of how we're going to do things the wrong way.

[Trefle]

Sometimes attempts to compensate for inequality go so far that they become opposite direction racism

True things over here, this.

Maybe "straight white male" should really be "able with able relatives, lower middle class and up, straight, white, male". Or maybe not. Whether or not there is an exception to "SWMs have it easier" really depends on where you are and what you want to do.

Even -that- is tricky. The readers have to suspend their personal experience; their hardships, challenges, victories and losses, in exchange to be a subject in a statement; part of a group one might not feel included in.

For example, I can make it as specific as possible; "able, young, lower middle class and up, straight, white, male living in places politically and religiously compatible with their own, reads webcomics and plays D&Ds" and some people will still claim false.
This is part of creating statements, especially statements like these, that I think will be quite omnipresent no matter in what size and amount.

I think it's better to make good education available to everyone and to make sure people don't grow up separated by race, but I understand such scaaaaary "socialism" is unacceptable in many countries and then artificial reverse racism is pretty much the only thing one can do to compensate for racism and the effects of past racism.

The way I experienced it here, it simply sinks underneath. There are no claim of being socialism / etc (although I have seen claims for 'Western' (EBIL EBIL EBIIIL) ideas corrupting my country), they simply went... "that's the way it is?" or blamed the culture. "You know, it's not about -skin-, it's about their culture!" right.

[Embre]

I'd like to leave a more detailed reply, but it's nearly 3 a.m. here and I really should be getting some sleep. So, in short:

If anyone is interested (and willing to spend the money at some point), I recommend these two books: Race in the 21st Century: Ethnographic Approaches by John Hartigan, Jr.; and Racial Paranoia: The Unintended Consequences of Political Correctness by John L. Jackson, Jr. Both approach the topic of race in America as a cultural paradigm that is "performed" in everyday life. The latter focuses more on the different kinds of racism experienced in the present-day (and in my opinion, is a better read...or at least, is more accessible).
(Forgive me for the terrible summaries; it's been awhile since I've read either. ><)

For something free to read and more heavy-handed, I rather enjoyed this blog post: dear white people, i love you
Edit: Be warned, mature language everywhere in the above.

On white privilege and pointing out the concept of white privilege to (privileged or not) white people: I always feel as though there's some defense mechanism that flies up whenever I try to discuss this, even with friends. As a "minority," I'm not personally angry or offended by the notion of white privilege; I was the "token Asian friend" in my high school group and was blatantly amused by it until the academics told me I really shouldn't be. Anyway.

Several conversations have boiled down to pointing out all the ways in which my whitey friend isn't "privileged," and I think a lot of this has to do with the ideas associated with the language of the term itself. I tried to discuss it differently once, by describing whiteness as the base standard, as the expected normative, for socio-cultural exchanges in America. It is in that sense that I try to approach "white privilege", and I honestly don't have some conspiratorial agenda to make white people feel guilty. I just think that it's a concept worth including in the discourse surrounding "racial equality."

To close, I apologize for the excessive use of scare quotes in this post.

[oddtail]

For something free to read and more heavy-handed, I rather enjoyed this blog post: dear white people, i love you

I confess, I don't get it (the post, not that you enjoyed it).

[mindstalk]

I'll give you the insignificant part relative to other problems concerning ethnicity so let's talk about problems that are actually significant relative to racism. Problems such as dwindling biodiversity and the fact that people are using 1.5 earths worth of renewable resources every year. Problems such as the lack of a nationalized medical database, which would be a huge boon to not only receiving care but could be used for long term empirical studies of care. Yet the national attention is eaten up with horseshit just like this. Scalzi writing racist articles isn't helping any real problem and even if it were aimed at a real problem, two wrongs don't make a right.

Significant to whom?

You're white. Empty taxicabs don't pass you by because of your skin color. The cops don't target you for extra attention because of your skin color. A jury is less likely to convict you of a crime, and if you were you'd be less likely to get the death penalty. Your moving into a neighborhood isn't deemed to lower property values. Suburbs don't resist public transit for fear that you might visit.

You're male. You don't walk around with a heightened sense of fear. People don't assume that you're incapable of technical skills, or avoid hiring you because you might get pregnant.

The problems you mention are significant. So is black poverty and crappy schools blacks have access to and a huge fraction of black men being in prison or former convicts (and thus, in many states, disenfranchised). So is women's access to birth control and abortion and equal paying jobs and being able to accuse a rapist without being dragged through the mud and told she was asking for it.