The unofficial bad day thread.

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Re: The unofficial bad day thread.

Postby LadyObvious23 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:06 am

Except DELIBERATE MISGENDERING IS FUCKING TRANSPHOBIC. RAMONA BEING INTRODUCED AS INTERSEX WITH A SLUR IS TRANSPHOBIC.

DILLON IS A TRANSPHOBIC PIECE OF GARBAGE.
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Re: The unofficial bad day thread.

Postby brasca » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:38 am

Well if you read today's strip you would know that Ramona does not take offense because she doesn't have a knee jerk reaction to equate curiosity with gender and/or sexuality phobia like too many people do.

Honestly with the way Angel is reacting to all this I couldn't help, but think of you when I first read it.
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Re: The unofficial bad day thread.

Postby LadyObvious23 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:18 am

SHE'S WRITTEN THAT WAY. BY SOMEONE WHO IS CISGENDERED,WHO HAS NO IDEA WHAT TRANSPHOBIA IS AT ALL. IT IS STILL TRANSPHOBIC. HERMAPHRODITE IS A TRANSPHOBIC SLUR. HOW DILLON TREATS ANGEL IS STILL TRANSPHOBIC. SO IS ASKING ABOUT HER GENITALS. IT IS NONE OF ZII AND DILLON'S FUCKING BUSINESS. SHE ISN'T OBLIGATED TO TEACH THEM. FUCK THIS BULLSHIT. EVEN IF YOU'RE 'CURIOUS' IT DOESN'T EXCUSE SHITTY INVASIVE BEHAVIOR AT ALL!!

So being disgusted with transphobic pieces of shit who deliberately misgender one transperson and fetishized Ramona because they thought she had a penis is what made you think of me? But as "overreacting". Cuz transpeople being disgusted with transphobic bullshit is just overreacting. :roll:
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Re: The unofficial bad day thread.

Postby brasca » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:13 am

That's right blame the writers for knowing nothing because they are not exactly like you. I must admit to a degree of ignorance regarding transgenders until the introduction of Claire from Questionable Content. http://www.questionablecontent.net/ Having interesting characters we care about enlightens people. They see them as people who are not all that different than themselves instead of freaks or delicate porcelain dolls. So what if the author is a straight cisgender male or female.

Getting back to the Angel comparison. The ranting and raving is the most obvious, but the need to speak for someone else regardless of what they think or feel is something characteristic of you too. Ramona identifies as a hermaphrodite not intersex and she is not offended when people who don't mean her any harm ask. That is her prerogative. Not everyone who is transgender or intersex is adamant about using the new vocabulary. By the way Artemisia considers Ramona to be her new absolute favorite of the Maverse, however, Angel like you continues with her tantrum as if the questions were aimed at her.

Anger management was Ruby's suggestion and it's a good one. It might keep you from getting banned from more forums in the future.
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Re: The unofficial bad day thread.

Postby LadyObvious23 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:21 am

brasca wrote:That's right blame the writers for knowing nothing because they are not exactly like you. I must admit to a degree of ignorance regarding transgenders until the introduction of Claire from Questionable Content. http://www.questionablecontent.net/ Having interesting characters we care about enlightens people. They see them as people who are not all that different than themselves instead of freaks or delicate porcelain dolls. So what if the author is a straight cisgender male or female.
Except that's not a reason and this is an excuse. And a good reason cisgendered people should fucking research transpeople rather than fucking assume. Because that's what writers actually do!

brasca wrote:Getting back to the Angel comparison. The ranting and raving is the most obvious, but the need to speak for someone else regardless of what they think or feel is something characteristic of you too. Ramona identifies as a hermaphrodite not intersex and she is not offended when people who don't mean her any harm ask. That is her prerogative. Not everyone who is transgender or intersex is adamant about using the new vocabulary. By the way Artemisia considers Ramona to be her new absolute favorite of the Maverse, however, Angel like you continues with her tantrum as if the questions were aimed at her.
YEAH NO. YOU'RE LITERALLY BEIMG TRANSPHOBIC. INTERSEX PEOPLE NEVER DESCRIBE THEMSELVES IN THIS MATTER AND USING A TRANSWOMAN AS A SHIELD IS FUCKING WRONG. JUST BECAUSE SHE'S OKAY WITH IT DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY LESS FUCKING TRANSPHOBIC. IT IS OFFENSIVE. IT'S WRONG. ZII AND DILLON SHOULDN'T BE AKSING THEY NEED TO MIND THEIR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS. IT'S STILL TRANSPHOBIC.

brasca wrote: Anger management was Ruby's suggestion and it's a good one. It might keep you from getting banned from more forums in the future.

Yes because being angry with transphobic/sexist shit means I have to be banned. The cisgendered woman,who knows NOTHING about transphobia should totes be listened to. It isn't like promoting harmful stereotypes hurts people?! Like nah!
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Re: The unofficial bad day thread.

Postby brasca » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:26 pm

LadyObvious23 wrote:
brasca wrote:That's right blame the writers for knowing nothing because they are not exactly like you. I must admit to a degree of ignorance regarding transgenders until the introduction of Claire from Questionable Content. http://www.questionablecontent.net/ Having interesting characters we care about enlightens people. They see them as people who are not all that different than themselves instead of freaks or delicate porcelain dolls. So what if the author is a straight cisgender male or female.
Except that's not a reason and this is an excuse. And a good reason cisgendered people should fucking research transpeople rather than fucking assume. Because that's what writers actually do!


How do you know they didn't do their research? Were you part of the creative process?

LadyObvious23 wrote:
brasca wrote:Getting back to the Angel comparison. The ranting and raving is the most obvious, but the need to speak for someone else regardless of what they think or feel is something characteristic of you too. Ramona identifies as a hermaphrodite not intersex and she is not offended when people who don't mean her any harm ask. That is her prerogative. Not everyone who is transgender or intersex is adamant about using the new vocabulary. By the way Artemisia considers Ramona to be her new absolute favorite of the Maverse, however, Angel like you continues with her tantrum as if the questions were aimed at her.
YEAH NO. YOU'RE LITERALLY BEIMG TRANSPHOBIC. INTERSEX PEOPLE NEVER DESCRIBE THEMSELVES IN THIS MATTER AND USING A TRANSWOMAN AS A SHIELD IS FUCKING WRONG. JUST BECAUSE SHE'S OKAY WITH IT DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY LESS FUCKING TRANSPHOBIC. IT IS OFFENSIVE. IT'S WRONG. ZII AND DILLON SHOULDN'T BE AKSING THEY NEED TO MIND THEIR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS. IT'S STILL TRANSPHOBIC.


Do you know that trans speople do not use such terms for a fact? This does take place in Montreal, Canada so perhaps their cisgender and transgender community are not as hung up on labels as you. And if I am indeed transphobic does that mean I'm like Joss Whedon too because I got a spec script and maybe Hollywood would be interested. :D


LadyObvious23 wrote:
brasca wrote: Anger management was Ruby's suggestion and it's a good one. It might keep you from getting banned from more forums in the future.

Yes because being angry with transphobic/sexist shit means I have to be banned. The cisgendered woman,who knows NOTHING about transphobia should totes be listened to. It isn't like promoting harmful stereotypes hurts people?! Like nah!


Are you talking about me? If you are basing this assumption from my avatar then let me inform you that I am a cisgendered man whose favorite characters in most of the webcomics I read are nerdy girls. That is why Helen is my avatar in this forum and Ruby is my avatar at Pixie Trix Comics. I also have Amber O'Malley for Dumbing of Age another good comic that delves into sexuality and gender identity issues. It is any easy enough mistake and I am not offended.
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Re: The unofficial bad day thread.

Postby LadyObvious23 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:53 pm

brasca wrote:
LadyObvious23 wrote:
brasca wrote:That's right blame the writers for knowing nothing because they are not exactly like you. I must admit to a degree of ignorance regarding transgenders until the introduction of Claire from Questionable Content. http://www.questionablecontent.net/ Having interesting characters we care about enlightens people. They see them as people who are not all that different than themselves instead of freaks or delicate porcelain dolls. So what if the author is a straight cisgender male or female.
Except that's not a reason and this is an excuse. And a good reason cisgendered people should fucking research transpeople rather than fucking assume. Because that's what writers actually do!


How do you know they didn't do their research? Were you part of the creative process?

THAT IS A SLUR SO OBVIOUSLY THEY FUCKING DIDN'T RESEARCH ANYTHING AT ALL!

brasca wrote:
LadyObvious23 wrote:
brasca wrote:Getting back to the Angel comparison. The ranting and raving is the most obvious, but the need to speak for someone else regardless of what they think or feel is something characteristic of you too. Ramona identifies as a hermaphrodite not intersex and she is not offended when people who don't mean her any harm ask. That is her prerogative. Not everyone who is transgender or intersex is adamant about using the new vocabulary. By the way Artemisia considers Ramona to be her new absolute favorite of the Maverse, however, Angel like you continues with her tantrum as if the questions were aimed at her.
YEAH NO. YOU'RE LITERALLY BEIMG TRANSPHOBIC. INTERSEX PEOPLE NEVER DESCRIBE THEMSELVES IN THIS MATTER AND USING A TRANSWOMAN AS A SHIELD IS FUCKING WRONG. JUST BECAUSE SHE'S OKAY WITH IT DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY LESS FUCKING TRANSPHOBIC. IT IS OFFENSIVE. IT'S WRONG. ZII AND DILLON SHOULDN'T BE AKSING THEY NEED TO MIND THEIR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS. IT'S STILL TRANSPHOBIC.


Do you know that trans speople do not use such terms for a fact? This does take place in Montreal, Canada so perhaps their cisgender and transgender community are not as hung up on labels as you. And if I am indeed transphobic does that mean I'm like Joss Whedon too because I got a spec script and maybe Hollywood would be interested. :D
*is trans and knows it's a fucking slur and the bullshit about labels needs to fucking end because what cisgendered people call labels are actually identies and matter more than they care* And you know NOTHING ABOUT TRANSPEOPLE. DON'T EVEN. AND ANGEL IS A HIM. YOU JUST MISGENDERED HIM. THAG MAKES YOU TRANSPHOBIC.


brasca wrote:
LadyObvious23 wrote:
brasca wrote: Anger management was Ruby's suggestion and it's a good one. It might keep you from getting banned from more forums in the future.

Yes because being angry with transphobic/sexist shit means I have to be banned. The cisgendered woman,who knows NOTHING about transphobia should totes be listened to. It isn't like promoting harmful stereotypes hurts people?! Like nah!


Are you talking about me? If you are basing this assumption from my avatar then let me inform you that I am a cisgendered man whose favorite characters in most of the webcomics I read are nerdy girls. That is why Helen is my avatar in this forum and Ruby is my avatar at Pixie Trix Comics. I also have Amber O'Malley for Dumbing of Age another good comic that delves into sexuality and gender identity issues. It is any easy enough mistake and I am not offended.

I OBVIOUSLY WAS TALKING ABOUT RUBY. SHE IS CISGENDER. SHE HAS NO IDEA WHAT BEING TRANS IS LIKE AND NEITHER DO YOU.
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Re: The unofficial bad day thread.

Postby mikbuster » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:14 pm

I was told I looked especially pretty today by a nice young person. A woman had come in asking who the toy car outside belonged to. She asked the teen making her sandwich if it was "his". She told her that actually it was "hers". The woman seemed apologetic and nice about it. Later the teen told me that. I know it was a lie. I know because I wore what I usually wear, I hadn't shaved this morning, and I had just been identified by a stranger as male. I get that she lied to make me feel better, but I don't understand why people lie. It hurts.

Feeling very hurt and thought I'd interrupt the argument with thread relevant stuff. To the one of you that's frequently abusive in their words, please stop. I get that you're upset. We all do. Abuse at best gets people to block you and at worst they have fun pissing you off even more. You're always abusive and in places where it's not called for. And apparently I'm upset enough that my language skills are continuing to be faulty. Awesome.
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Re: The unofficial bad day thread.

Postby LadyObvious23 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:34 pm

Was super late to work and got a pissy customer who got mad because she couldn't use all her points for a purchase. Fucking...ughh...
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Re: The unofficial bad day thread.

Postby TCampbell » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:55 am

The notion that Gisele did no research on this story could not be more inaccurate. It has been my experience that the more personal comics get, the more we tend to use details that we know are based in fact because they happened to us or trusted relatives or friends, the more vehemently a minority of readers tend to insist that we're just making it all up, because their personal experiences don't match what's in the text. It happens to David Willis regularly, it happened to me when I used my personal experiences as fuel for Penny and Aggie, and it's happening here, even in a series that's too much of a screwball comedy to hold to the standards of the other two. For everyone who takes up that banner, their experiences are the only ones that count: it's not like it's incumbent upon THEM to just do a Google search for "I am a hermaphrodite" and see how many people (real, not fictional) have actually identified that way.

The research involved here was a lot more personal than a Google search... personal enough that I can't go into more detail without violating the privacy of others, so that's all I can say about that.*

LadyObvious, not long after you got booted from the Pixie Trix forums, you wrote me to say that had happened for "no reason." Not only do I not agree, but I've spent the last few days undecided about whether to keep you on THIS forum. On the one hand, it is not my back yard any more, as I proved to myself recently when I misremembered something about the strip that, five years ago, I could have rattled off like multiplication tables. It seems to have become a community largely independent of me. And I'm aware that you've related fine to the other community members many times.

On the other hand, from what you've said here and elsewhere, I have absolutely no hope left for a civil discussion on this matter. You've smeared one of the best people I know, and your response to anyone who dissents with you on these matters is far too often to scream that they are transphobic and/or sexist. I'm simply not capable of being Gisele's friend and continuing to play host to conversations like this when I have the option to do otherwise. Don't bother asking me to reinstate you, I'm not doing it again.

*On the off chance anyone makes the comparison, I do still regret using a term in QUILTBAG that was soon replaced by "trans" and getting defensive about that for a span of about 48 hours, but that usage was informed by research that was far too careless, and a general sign that I was making that strip for the wrong reasons. This isn't.
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Re: The unofficial bad day thread.

Postby Lia S » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:20 am

I think a large part of the problem is not just differences in direct experiences, but culture being more local than the English language. A word that is considered offensive by all well informed people in one place may be completely normal in another. (It gets worse when there are different languages involved - for example in Dutch it’s normal to write “a gay” or “a transgender”, so I often get offended while reading the newspaper, and only when I get ready to write a letter to the editor I remember the news is in Dutch and not in English.)

Although I had blocked LO (because they would not stop bothering in PM about a discussion that had become triggering for me) with no intent to ever undo that, I am a little disappointed to see them permabanned. They did have good points some of the time, and I admit I also had my doubts about the quality of research done for the Ma3verse, to the point that I’ve taken breaks from reading those comics because they were too offensive to me. On the other hand, it is easier to communicate about my point of view in a productive way when there isn’t someone else saying the same thing in a much too aggressive style.

I am looking forward to the re-read reaching QUILTBAG, because of one particular scene. With the information I had back then, it seemed rather odd, now I am sure that it is physically improbable. I am, of course, talking about this page. ;)
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Re: The unofficial bad day thread.

Postby brasca » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:43 am

Perhaps I should have just added LO to the foe list, but I was tired of ignoring the constant ranting and raving without challenge. Playing the victim after getting kicked of the PIxie Trix forum compelled me to refute and it seems to have snowballed from there.
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Re: The unofficial bad day thread.

Postby Valerie » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:03 am

D: I missed so much drama.

I'm sick and have a fever and sore throat and will probably die, so I'll miss all of you.

(I probably won't die.)
(Probably.)
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Re: The unofficial bad day thread.

Postby TCampbell » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:19 am

Lia, you might be onto something there! All we can do at this stage is keep doing our best.

Valerie, best wishes for a speedy recovery.
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Re: The unofficial bad day thread.

Postby Lia S » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:54 am

Val, if you die, I insist you must reincarnate as my daughter. Or son, if you feel like trying that for a change.

(get well! *hugs*)
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