[2-15[12] I wish.

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Re: [2-15[12] I wish.

Postby Khymera » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:32 pm

Alice Macher wrote:
Khymera wrote::shock:

Oh, I sure hope some clarification of that remark is forthcoming.


Um. If you're implying that I was making fun of Hexr's troubles, I was not. Rather, I was referring to Hexr, despite the horrible day, still being able to manage quips like:

Hexr wrote:The sixth one I did read with a pen, looking for grammatical errors (I was kind of a dick back then).


and

If you don't I'll blame the pills. Heck, I'll blame the pills anyway!


No offense, but I have no idea what you're going on about. I meant clarification of Lisa's remark.
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Re: [2-15[12] I wish.

Postby Alice Macher » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:35 pm

Then you missed my apology, back on page five, immediately following Adrishiana's clarification.
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Re: [2-15[12] I wish.

Postby Valerie » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 pm

Freemage wrote:...

So, apparently, if Lisa wants to get sexually abused, all she has to do is get pregnant and go for an abortion. After all, assuming that this is a faux W&M, this is Virginia.

WARNING: Following those links is capable of producing rage, nausea and, for survivors, potential triggering. It's that fucking awful. I apologize to anyone whose day is ruined by it, but quite honestly, word needs to be spread, and it needs to be loud and clear.


I already knew about this. It's majorly fucked up. You are literally raped by the doctor, according to the FBI's new definition (forced penetration with an object counts now). Technically, I suppose you have to give your intent (your intent being a very simple "yes, I still want to abort"), but if you're in a position where you feel an abortion is necessary, you don't actually have any choice.

Never mind all the levels of horrible it is that the doctors are required to do this. The state is requiring these doctors to rape women when, as your article says, there's not medical reason to do so.

I get that the intentions are, as far as anti-choicers feel, "good." They want to make sure we don't do something we'll regret-- you know, by like, making us regret it. If you wanna sit there and ramble off facts to me (real ones, not some bullshit about religious reasons) about why I shouldn't have an abortion, I will accept that. Tell me what it'll do to my health (nothing, in most cases). Tell me what it'll do to my mental well-being (mixed results in studies). Do not shove something into me that I don't want or need there.

This is the part that bothers me most, because I know it's the part that anyone rooting for this will agree with:

The Article wrote:But that’s the other catch in this bill. Proponents seem to be of the view that once a woman has allowed a man to penetrate her body once, her right to bodily autonomy has ended.


"Oh, if you were comfortable enough to let someone you know very personally and probably have a deep relationship with penetrate you, you should totally be able to let some person you don't even know who couldn't possibly have a deep connection based on trust penetrate you. (You hussy.)"

(Not to mention that, technically, no penetration really has to occur for a pregnancy to happen; a little semen spilled on the labia can do it if it trickles in. Unlikely, sure, but still a possibility.)

I didn't hear about the personhood law passing there. I hate his country so much sometimes.

I'll be honest with you, I'm not even all that comfortable with the idea of abortion. But let's look at the facts-- the world is over-populated anyway, adoption doesn't work out very often, and men and women who have kids too early make terrible parents. So I am completely in favor of a woman deciding for herself what to do, when to do it, and her right to have it done in as safe and non-invasive a fashion as possible. Besides, this could cause medical problems-- what if a woman is scratched the wrong way or given an infection because of an invasive procedure that she didn't even need?

In short, if you need me, I'll be in Canada.

Edit: I had a typo that says "his country" instead of "this country." I'm leaving it there because it's more accurate.
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Re: [2-15[12] I wish.

Postby Louisa » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:18 am

Valerie wrote:
The Article wrote:But that’s the other catch in this bill. Proponents seem to be of the view that once a woman has allowed a man to penetrate her body once, her right to bodily autonomy has ended.


"Oh, if you were comfortable enough to let someone you know very personally and probably have a deep relationship with penetrate you, you should totally be able to let some person you don't even know who couldn't possibly have a deep connection based on trust penetrate you. (You hussy.)"


"And if your pregnancy happened because someone penetrated you against your will, then you should be fine with us penetrating you too, because hey, you're used to it by now. After all, it's not like you might have PTSD or anything, and there's no way this experience could trigger flashbacks to your rape" :evil:
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Re: [2-15[12] I wish.

Postby Valerie » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:21 am

Louisa wrote:
Valerie wrote:
The Article wrote:But that’s the other catch in this bill. Proponents seem to be of the view that once a woman has allowed a man to penetrate her body once, her right to bodily autonomy has ended.


"Oh, if you were comfortable enough to let someone you know very personally and probably have a deep relationship with penetrate you, you should totally be able to let some person you don't even know who couldn't possibly have a deep connection based on trust penetrate you. (You hussy.)"


"And if your pregnancy happened because someone penetrated you against your will, then you should be fine with us penetrating you too, because hey, you're used to it by now. After all, it's not like you might have PTSD or anything, and there's no way this experience could trigger flashbacks to your rape" :evil:


Srsly. These people can go diaf. Preferably after being raped.

Oh God, I am so sorry, I would never wish rape on anyone, but people who think that way need some goddamn perspective.
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Re: [2-15[12] I wish.

Postby Brook » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:22 pm

I... Just read about that bill, today. (One out of a few I've learned of lately that respect "morality codes" more than they respect people's integrity.) I don't have anything to add at this point; people here have already phrased my own thoughts well.

@ Valerie: I may know what you mean. While I truly don't wish any kind of violation on anyone, I do wish for some people that they, some magical how, attained some understanding for the pain they cause others.
But that's what really sickens me about this bill. I think they know full and well the pain it would cause to be forced to undergo that "examination". That's the whole point. They like it because it will make people feel horrible. (Because fear, shame and pain can be used to control people.)
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Re: [2-15[12] I wish.

Postby Lia S » Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:54 pm

OK, I read about that bill now, didn't feel ready for it sooner. I have the following to say:

This is absolutely insane. But it is one of those insane things of which the opposite makes perfect sense - surely when their mothers see these politicians on a screen, they will regret not having an abortion.
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Re: [2-15[12] I wish.

Postby Valerie » Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:51 pm

Lia S wrote:OK, I read about that bill now, didn't feel ready for it sooner. I have the following to say:

This is absolutely insane. But it is one of those insane things of which the opposite makes perfect sense - surely when their mothers see these politicians on a screen, they will regret not having an abortion.


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Lia S wrote:Valerie is right.

As usual.


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Re: [2-15[12] I wish.

Postby NobodySpecial » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:43 pm

Valerie wrote:
Louisa wrote:
Valerie wrote:
The Article wrote:But that’s the other catch in this bill. Proponents seem to be of the view that once a woman has allowed a man to penetrate her body once, her right to bodily autonomy has ended.


"Oh, if you were comfortable enough to let someone you know very personally and probably have a deep relationship with penetrate you, you should totally be able to let some person you don't even know who couldn't possibly have a deep connection based on trust penetrate you. (You hussy.)"


"And if your pregnancy happened because someone penetrated you against your will, then you should be fine with us penetrating you too, because hey, you're used to it by now. After all, it's not like you might have PTSD or anything, and there's no way this experience could trigger flashbacks to your rape" :evil:


Srsly. These people can go diaf. Preferably after being raped.

Oh God, I am so sorry, I would never wish rape on anyone, but people who think that way need some goddamn perspective.


They have a perspective. It's that women should never ever EVER enjoy sex, and if a woman does anything sexual that isn't complete submission to a man's wishes, then they're sluts and whores and deserve what happens to them.
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Re: [2-15[12] I wish.

Postby Valerie » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:00 am

NobodySpecial wrote:They have a perspective. It's that women should never ever EVER enjoy sex, and if a woman does anything sexual that isn't complete submission to a man's wishes, then they're sluts and whores and deserve what happens to them.


Or even if she does submit to a man's wishes. (How else is she gonna get pregnant?)
We can't win, ladies. Time to pack it up and go. We'll bring the cool guys with us, but the rest of them can stay here and figure out how much they'll hate themselves if they "turn" gay without women around to screw.
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As usual.


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Re: [2-15[12] I wish.

Postby Zanosuke Kurosaki » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:09 am

Valerie wrote:
NobodySpecial wrote:They have a perspective. It's that women should never ever EVER enjoy sex, and if a woman does anything sexual that isn't complete submission to a man's wishes, then they're sluts and whores and deserve what happens to them.


Or even if she does submit to a man's wishes. (How else is she gonna get pregnant?)
We can't win, ladies. Time to pack it up and go. We'll bring the cool guys with us, but the rest of them can stay here and figure out how much they'll hate themselves if they "turn" gay without women around to screw.


No, it's totally possible to win. This guy sure thinks so. All we have to keep doing(to win), is say "No, I won't" one more time than they say "yes, you will". Damned if I'm ever giving ground to those sniveling, cowardly wastes of flesh, space, and good air, that think they're allowed to have a say in something that's none of their freaking business.
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Re: [2-15[12] I wish.

Postby Valerie » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:39 am

Zanosuke Kurosaki wrote:No, it's totally possible to win. This guy sure thinks so. All we have to keep doing(to win), is say "No, I won't" one more time than they say "yes, you will". Damned if I'm ever giving ground to those sniveling, cowardly wastes of flesh, space, and good air, that think they're allowed to have a say in something that's none of their freaking business.


It's taking too long. That's the part that bothers me so much.
America is supposed to be this incredible place full of opportunities for everyone.
But it's not. If you're a woman or a minority, you're still behind straight, white men. We've got a lot of straight, white men on our side, and that's awesome, but it's not enough.

We're supposed to be this place with all this freedom of religion, but we're not. People complain about "under God" possibly being removed and some imaginary war on Christmas and how we should respect their religious views, but God forbid gays get married (which is a legal process that should not involve religion) or that women have access to birth control (which is a health issue that should not involve religion) or that someone say "Happy Holidays" (which is a generic greeting because fuck if I know whether you celebrate Christmas-- and I say that as someone who normally just says "Merry Christmas" out of habit).

Yeah, your kids don't pray in school. If you want them to, send them to a Catholic school. Or, you know, maybe be a fucking parent and take them to church or something. They bitch about how the schools shouldn't be teaching sex education, because that's a parent's place, but apparently praying with your children is not a parent's place.

I'm sick of a country where at least 33% of the population is not Christian is being held to Christian rules when the very first goddamn amendment says that's a no-no. I'm sick of a country where atheists are looked at with scorn while Christians are telling women that they don't deserve comprehensive health care.

To be clear, I don't dislike Christians. I dislike the ones that think they have to right to tell me what to do. You are not my mother. You are not my father. For someone who complains about "big brother" so damn much, they really like to take the authoritative role. Especially when Uncle Sam himself is the one who said that I am not obligated to live by your rules. They have a book. They believe in it. That's great, I am totally, completely, not-even-being-sarcastic happy for them. I just disagree. And I don't tell you how to live your life, so don't tell me how to live mine.

When we started the U.S., it was a great idea, pretty innovative for its time, even. Everyone (who was male and white) started on equal footing and worked their way up. Then the blacks and women got some rights under their belts.

Women were the last ones to obtain the vote. It was 1920. I've only been able to vote for 92 years-- at the same time, 92 years is a fucking long time. Look at all the advancements humankind has made in that time, all the inventions and new ideas and treaties. Now look at where women and minorities stand. The 1940s was when women started working, but we went right back to the kitchen when the men came back from the war. The 1960s was when blacks were considered "almost kind of a little" equal to whites, and you can still see the attitude, the feeling that, somehow, they're not. Women are still making $0.77 to each man's $1 in the same fields. Minorities, especially female minorities, are at a ridiculously high rate for poverty (same with white women).

Oh, and the reason women make $0.77 to each $1 of a man's? Because of the recession. Men were getting laid off or having their hours cut. Women had to start working to balance out their husbands' money troubles. We're roughly 50% of the workforce now. We didn't win-- men just lost a little. That's the wrongest reason for us to get closer to equality.

AGSHASJASJA MY POINT IS
This country is fucked and if Obama isn't reelected I'm moving in with Alice and Tamar.
Lia S wrote:Valerie is right.

As usual.


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Re: [2-15[12] I wish.

Postby Zanosuke Kurosaki » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:55 am

Valerie wrote:An amazingly worded post full of win (if a tad depressing, when one examines the realities - but can't have everything!)

This country is fucked and if Obama isn't reelected I'm moving in with Alice and Tamar.


At this rate, I'm seriously considering contacting a buddy of mine who does tech for a living up there in Canada, and asking if I could crash there (after saving up a little, of course) while finding a new place. I love this country, I love its ideals, but I am so very sick of how broken the system has become, and of how much the people that are supposed to be stewards of said system are in denial about how badly it has broken. To say nothing of how deeply they are in the pockets of the people who are still actively breaking the system. I don't know if I've said this before, but George Carlin was right. The system threw us overboard a couple decades ago, it's only just now becoming obvious how much the ship is starting to sink along with us ("us" being the poor, the former middle-class, the soon-to-be-former-middle-class, and honestly, everyone else that isn't a rich, white, male conservative.) It should be a sign of the Apocalypse when there's a conservative radio host who actually highly disagrees with the way his own party is handling things (Jerry Doyle, in this case.)

For the tl;dr crowd: "RAWR! ZANO SMASH STUPID RECESSION AND ITS MAKERS!" :evil:
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Re: [2-15[12] I wish.

Postby Valerie » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:00 am

I'm also gonna go ahead and throw this out there:
I know we have a few members who are more conservative than me. I apologize if I hurt any feelings, but I stand by everything I said. Women and minorities should have as much a chance as straight white men, and the first amendment is pretty clear.

It amazes me how many people are so nuts about the second amendment and seem to have no idea that it's there to protect the first.
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As usual.


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Re: [2-15[12] I wish.

Postby CEOIII » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:38 am

Val, would you mind horribly if I posted this on my Facebook page? (giving you full credit, of course. I'm no plagarist.)
I'm Charlie Owens, good night, and good luck.
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