I'm so off-topic lately. D:

[MudFlap33]

deliciousness

Damn, that's looks great, I want some LGBT!

*flirty eyes*

Man, should've gone with my original post, "I want some LGBT in my mouth" *winks*

[Mr. Brightside]

I would imagine that Billie seeing Joyce in that state did all the work of several cups of coffee and a good shower.

...in other words, not a whole lot. Things like that can counteract the effects a bit, and if you've absolutely got to do something sensitive drunk, it's a good idea, but it's still possible to make stupid decisions. Haven't most OUI's had large amounts of coffee?

[Freemage]

Freemage: Billie is drunk off her ass. The only one who was being level-headed (and even the only one in a state to be level-headed) about it was Dorothy, but the drunk girl's advice and the drugged girl's decision are what we're listening to?

She's communicating clearly and not slurring her words. Would I want her doing anything that required any degree of physical capacity (such as drive a car)? No. But generally, 'drunk expert' still beats 'clueless/naive teetotaller'.

Note: I'm not necessarily saying that Sarah is correct. I'm saying she's not necessarily carrying the Idiot Ball. I'm seeing her motivations, and while I'm not entirely certain I agree with them, I have to at least acknowledge that she might be right.

This sort of situation is all about risk-analysis. Thing is, risk-analysis doesn't JUST take into account the worst-case scenario and walk away. Done right, it also factors in the odds.

The risks, respectively, for not going to the hospital and going to the hospital:

A: Major medical complications, possibly death.
A1: Obviously, this is a severe case, potentially dangerous. We'll call it a 9 on a ten-point scale.
A2: The odds, however, are unclear. Billie's 'Lore: Horrible Things' seems high enough to make an accurate assessment, and she seems fairly clear that it's a low-risk situation for Joyce. Furthermore, if Sarah sits up with her, she can monitor Joyce's breathing and so forth, and be there if anything does seem to be going wrong--this would, I assume, having 911 ready to dial.

B: Life-altering situation of being shoved back in the box.
B1: This isn't as bad, of course, as dying. But it could be as bad as, or even worse than, getting seriously but temporarily ill.
B2: Risk factor here is VERY high. Not only do we have Joyce's outright statement, but there's the simple fact that everything we've seen about her supports this interpretation. This really could be her one and only opportunity to break free of "the plan" her family has for her.

It's not a one-sided situation; it's a choice, and a difficult one, and I honestly can't say for certain that I absolutely would or would not take either course of action.

[Alice Macher]

DoA!Joyce's situation reminds me somewhat of Charlotte's. Like Charlotte, she comes from a very restrictive, conservatively religious home. That upbringing is what mostly informs her worldview. However, she's now confronted with the possibility of a freer way of life, and fervently devout as she still is, that possibility is very enticing indeed, and so she feels a growing need to escape her parents' influence.

I say "somewhat" because of course there are significant differences. Joyce, as far as we know yet, was never subjected to abuse at home. Although she holds certain beliefs that most if not all of us here would consider intolerant, even bigoted, she's cheerful and pleasant most of the time in social situations, and is much more well-balanced mentally than Charlotte. And sadder still, when Charlotte suffered sexual abuse (as T recently committed to saying in the Q&A thread), she, unlike Joyce, had neither the ability to defend herself nor anyone to turn to.

Just throwing some compare-and-contrast points out there, if anyone might like to expand on them.

[Valerie]

DoA!Joyce's situation reminds me somewhat of Charlotte's. Like Charlotte, she comes from a very restrictive, conservatively religious home. That upbringing is what mostly informs her worldview. However, she's now confronted with the possibility of a freer way of life, and fervently devout as she still is, that possibility is very enticing indeed, and so she feels a growing need to escape her parents' influence.

I say "somewhat" because of course there are significant differences. Joyce, as far as we know yet, was never subjected to abuse at home. Although she holds certain beliefs that most if not all of us here would consider intolerant, even bigoted, she's cheerful and pleasant most of the time in social situations, and is much more well-balanced mentally than Charlotte. And sadder still, when Charlotte suffered sexual abuse (as T recently committed to saying in the Q&A thread), she, unlike Joyce, had neither the ability to defend herself nor anyone to turn to.

Just throwing some compare-and-contrast points out there, if anyone might like to expand on them.

I think it's a good way to be like, "Hey, not all of us" (as I believe Willis himself was raised in a strict Christian household; if not, substitute "them" for "us") "are jerks/total nutjobs/etc."

Charlotte's family seemed more focused on the fire-and-brimstone bit, and her main goal was punishment of sinners. This is likely part of why she felt so down on herself. Why else would her mom and dad hurt her? It was because she's a sinner and sinners need to be punished. Of course, any abuse victim (especially a child) would have a similar mindset. Children are self-centered by nature, so if something bad is happening to them, they feel they must have done something wrong to deserve it. In cases like Charlotte, they feel the need to continue punishment of "bad behavior," whatever that might have ended up meaning to them. Thisisdepressingmelet'smoveontoJoyce.

Joyce is all sunshine and lollipops (unless there's something we don't know), so we can assume her family was a loving one. Maybe they focused more on how Jesus loves everyone than on how Old Testament God would own your ass. She's very sheltered, obviously, but still makes attempts to be understanding of differences. (She admitted that some "college people" will think God is a girl. When Dorothy responded with, "Actually, I'm an atheist," Joyce froze up and had a mini-meltdown, but she came back, apologized for her behavior, and decided to be friends with Dorothy anyway. That's acceptance, which is a hard thing to do when you've been told your whole life that people are sinners or basically anything we can assume Charlotte's parents said.)

[Kamino Neko]

(as I believe Willis himself was raised in a strict Christian household; if not, substitute "them" for "us")

Yes, he was. In fact, Joyce is based on him. (He has made this point repeatedly on the DoA comment threads, such as when people take Joyce as a 'take that'.)

[Valerie]

(as I believe Willis himself was raised in a strict Christian household; if not, substitute "them" for "us")

Yes, he was. In fact, Joyce is based on him. (He has made this point repeatedly on the DoA comment threads, such as when people take Joyce as a 'take that'.)

I've never actually seen Joyce as a "take that." Is she supposed to be? Like maybe self-deprecating humor or something?
I always thought she was more like... well, as I already said, "Not all of us are jerks/nutjobs/etc." People are too used to "the fundamentalist" being a crazy, out-of-touch-with-reality type. And they can be, as anyone can be. But I feel like Joyce is a good subversion from that.

[Kamino Neko]

Joyce is based on him. (He has made this point repeatedly on the DoA comment threads, such as when people take Joyce as a 'take that'.)

I've never actually seen Joyce as a "take that." Is she supposed to be?

Nope, that's why be brings it up when people act like she is - 'Uh, guys, she's kind of me'. Not that 'take that me' is impossible, but when he's indulged in that, that I've seen, it's been in Shortpacked! where he's used either Ethan or the in-universe David Willis to do it (with the much broader humour than he's used in DoA making the wink a little more obvious - his poke at Lilformers, for instance).

[Zanosuke Kurosaki]

Rad it... *why* did I go and click that SP! link? I couldn't help but see what's happened since I stopped reading a few weeks back, and now I'm filled with the desire to see Malaya get come-uppance for being a hurtful witch. I blame you, Kamino, you posted the link! *fist-shake* ;_; (kidding, it's my own fault for not resisting the temptation.)

I agree with the poke at LilFormers, though. I've been re-reading it, and can't help but wonder - "Where's the funny?" Cute art and all, but uh, kinda lacking in humor.

[FarkUp]

Aw jeez, I shoulda checked here first before posting in main thread. Anyways, having skimmed through this thread, I'll have to disagree on Sarah being an idiot. I'll just quote my response from the Q&A thread:

Because she understands where Joyce is coming from about not being able to go to the hospital lest her family pull her out of college - because she's there on a full scholarship, she can't get into any trouble at all or she risks being kicked out, and this is her only hope for a career/future. If Joyce has to go to the hospital, she'll be pulled from the college by her family, Sarah completely understands that - also today's newest strip shows that Sarah does care for Joyce.

[mindstalk]

Weird reading about the Disney movies. I've basically not seen them. I have read Robin McKinley's _Beauty_ (and Rose Daughter, which was a second retelling of Beauty and the Beast) and the Beast was enchanted as a young man... 200 years ago. (Not sure about the Rose Daughter age.)

Beauty, of course, is 16-20. They get married. Which is a nice modest age gap compared to _Hero and the Crown_...

That Beast wasn't really an abuser by any stretch, apart from forcing Beauty to come to him, and even that supposedly rested on a bluff (i.e. not actually killing her father.)

[Valerie]

That Beast wasn't really an abuser by any stretch, apart from forcing Beauty to come to him, and even that supposedly rested on a bluff (i.e. not actually killing her father.)

Well, it's not physical abuse at that point, but it could easily count as emotional/psychological/verbal abuse.
In the Disney movie, he does come close to hitting her a couple of times (if I remember correctly) and stops himself just before doing it. Which is still very bad, don't get me wrong. Dude needs anger management.

[Zanosuke Kurosaki]

That Beast wasn't really an abuser by any stretch, apart from forcing Beauty to come to him, and even that supposedly rested on a bluff (i.e. not actually killing her father.)

Well, it's not physical abuse at that point, but it could easily count as emotional/psychological/verbal abuse.
In the Disney movie, he does come close to hitting her a couple of times (if I remember correctly) and stops himself just before doing it. Which is still very bad, don't get me wrong. Dude needs anger management.

I'd imagine whatever rage he would have normally felt at being enchanted over something of a minor slight was magnified several times by his "new", bestial body, with all the fun new hormones and biology that goes with it. Not saying he gets a free pass for that, saying it's sadly much more understandable when you think about it.

[Valerie]

That Beast wasn't really an abuser by any stretch, apart from forcing Beauty to come to him, and even that supposedly rested on a bluff (i.e. not actually killing her father.)

Well, it's not physical abuse at that point, but it could easily count as emotional/psychological/verbal abuse.
In the Disney movie, he does come close to hitting her a couple of times (if I remember correctly) and stops himself just before doing it. Which is still very bad, don't get me wrong. Dude needs anger management.

I'd imagine whatever rage he would have normally felt at being enchanted over something of a minor slight was magnified several times by his "new", bestial body, with all the fun new hormones and biology that goes with it. Not saying he gets a free pass for that, saying it's sadly much more understandable when you think about it.

I see where you're coming from, but at the same time, it's been years. It seems like he'd be used to the hormones and such now. But I guess that really just depends on how severe the changes were. (Plus we have to keep in mind that he was apparently kind of a jerk to begin with.)

[Alice Macher]

Me, I'd like to know why all his servants had to be enchanted just because he'd been a jerk. What had they done to deserve being turned into teacups and stuff?