09/14/2011 - Millicelebrity

[Zanosuke Kurosaki]

There's no evidence Omar was more of a sleaze than Stan. What we knew is that he was in a relationship with Samantha, and when that relationship was over, he was sleeping around. With Karen, with Brandi... And although Karen was with Marshall then, Stan tried to do the same. Worse, he was in a relationship with Michelle at the time.

Mmm, no, there was a huge difference in their situations. Omar was deliberately targeting her, and doing it while her boyfriend was around - and this time, Karen wasn't stopping anything. She stopped Stan, and Stan stopped the flirting when she did that. Stan also never saw his thing with Michelle as serious, and *that* is his major failing there, that he's getting way over-ostracized for - he never told her this until he was ending it. That's not sleaze, that's "not having the heart." Having been on the "losing" end of a relationship before where it *really* wasn't communicated very well that any relationship between us wasn't seen as serious*, I can say with complete certainty that it's way too easy to villify someone for it. When instead, the person who "lost", should really be kicking themselves for either getting way too serious too soon, or not keeping their head and a nice, clear view of what's actually going on. Wish I had.

*And get this - she'd suddenly ended up talking to me a lot less for a month previous to telling me this, and then was "suddenly" in a new one. That she'd said she hadn't wanted to be in one of the last times we talked, to boot. Think I dodged a bullet, there...

Both would be ostracized to a degree. Aggie was used to being one of the students thought of as weird, but Penny wasn't. Their year together, whether they went to college together or not, would have either tempered their love or withered it

I'm a tad inclined towards "withered", for a reason that has been shown again and again - Penny can't quite give up being popular. She's rather consistently shown that it's what she wants, to have all that attention, to have all those people admire and idolize her. Sure, she said she "gave up that dream" when the relationship with Aggie started, but it's easy to say such things when you're out of school for the summer, and your former "followers" aren't around to do the judging that some of them might be inclined towards. Basically, the whole thing between them? Yeah, Penny, it's easy to suddenly jump into it and start planning that future together when you're in the vacuum we college students call "between-semesters." Fill in that vacuum with everyone else, all those pressures and influences, and things suddenly become very different...

[Aydr]

I think you're forgetting that there's a year of high school that we never saw... and I'm sure there was plenty we didn't see. You really can't encompass the kind of treatment the LGBT community is likely to get in high school without making the entire webcomic about that.

I see what you did there.

huh, actually I hadn't seen that. Didn't know what the new webcomic was at all really. But, uh , guess that proves my point?

[T'Renn]

Bingo! Just noticed that Brandi called the event a "reception!"

That doesn't mean it's for a wedding.

The “Class of...” banner was blurred out, possibly to misdirect us. Our halls are full of “Class of ...” banners for this year's seniors. Tharqa obviously just showed up uninvited, deluding herself into thinking she would be welcomed.

Maybe it's not a wedding reception. I know I'm a newcomer to the forum, but I didn't think you had to be 100% correct to play.

More likely the blur is just to avoid tying the date down too closely.

[Fen]

There's no evidence Omar was more of a sleaze than Stan. What we knew is that he was in a relationship with Samantha, and when that relationship was over, he was sleeping around. With Karen, with Brandi... And although Karen was with Marshall then, Stan tried to do the same. Worse, he was in a relationship with Michelle at the time.

Sticking a girl against the wall and fingering her while she's saying no isn't my idea of "not a sleaze". Just because Karen went with it doesn't make his action justifiable, imho. Ironically, I never found Stan that much of a sleaze, despite the end result being as it is.

[Aydr]

There's no evidence Omar was more of a sleaze than Stan. What we knew is that he was in a relationship with Samantha, and when that relationship was over, he was sleeping around. With Karen, with Brandi... And although Karen was with Marshall then, Stan tried to do the same. Worse, he was in a relationship with Michelle at the time.

Sticking a girl against the wall and fingering her while she's saying no isn't my idea of "not a sleaze". Just because Karen went with it doesn't make his action justifiable, imho. Ironically, I never found Stan that much of a sleaze, despite the end result being as it is.

He's not, really. P&A are just not fair about it.

[Valerie]

There's no evidence Omar was more of a sleaze than Stan. What we knew is that he was in a relationship with Samantha, and when that relationship was over, he was sleeping around. With Karen, with Brandi... And although Karen was with Marshall then, Stan tried to do the same. Worse, he was in a relationship with Michelle at the time.

Sticking a girl against the wall and fingering her while she's saying no isn't my idea of "not a sleaze". Just because Karen went with it doesn't make his action justifiable, imho. Ironically, I never found Stan that much of a sleaze, despite the end result being as it is.

He's not, really. P&A are just not fair about it.

Dude, what Fen said times a hundred. As someone else pointed out, with Karen, Stan stopped when she told him to stop. She showed distaste for Omar and he kept going. Omar is a quadrillion times sleazier than Stan.

Dogberry: Good, I'd really hate to have made anyone feel unwelcome. We're a very nice board, especially as internet forums go. Text just messes things up sometimes, I guess. And I feel like we're probably going to see P&A still together (which I will be okay with, considering they talked about the issue and, if they're still together six years later, I have to assume they've come to an agreement regarding it). Either way, they're both getting a happy ending, I'm sure.

[Alice Macher]

I'm a tad inclined towards "withered", for a reason that has been shown again and again - Penny can't quite give up being popular. She's rather consistently shown that it's what she wants, to have all that attention, to have all those people admire and idolize her. Sure, she said she "gave up that dream" when the relationship with Aggie started, but it's easy to say such things when you're out of school for the summer, and your former "followers" aren't around to do the judging that some of them might be inclined towards. Basically, the whole thing between them? Yeah, Penny, it's easy to suddenly jump into it and start planning that future together when you're in the vacuum we college students call "between-semesters." Fill in that vacuum with everyone else, all those pressures and influences, and things suddenly become very different...

I disagree, in that if the relationship turns out to have ended I think it'd far more likely have been Aggie's call. The evidence throughout "The Last Summer of Youth" shows that Aggie, while she most definitely is attracted to and cares dearly for Penny, is the one with the most hesitancy and doubts about the relationship. Penny is the one who sends all the first signals, from the "Y"-shirt to the post-party kiss. Although Aggie returns the kiss, within a few days (during which she presumably hasn't had further contact with Penny) she's scared that Penny will try to mold her into something she isn't. Penny has to learn from Fred how Aggie feels and then give her assurance that she wants both of them to take it slow. When she then immediately turns to suggesting a makeover and making innuendoes, Aggie gets scared again.

Now granted, after the pivotal jogging scene in which she learns that Penny's scared too, Aggie takes more initiative in the relationship, and soon starts getting downright forward herself. But the night Finister dies, while Penny confines herself to sharing her regret over not having given Aggie the empathy she needed, Aggie has already begun to doubt that Penny's the one for her. "When I close my eyes...she isn't there." She again experiences Penny not being there in her imagination after their first time. Most of all, after their rage-sex, it's Aggie who comes perilously close to ending the relationship, whereas Penny's the one urging that they "fight for" their love. Note also that it's Penny who finally says those three little words.

Aggie does say at the end of "August" she has no intention of bailing right then and there, because Penny "mean[s] too much" to her still. And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, we've had a hint in the current strip that they did stay together at least partway through senior year. But I still suspect that if they didn't end up together, it was more likely due to Aggie, not Penny, wanting out.

I still think we'll find they are still together, though. Semper fidelis.

[Mr. Brightside]

Sticking a girl against the wall and fingering her while she's saying no isn't my idea of "not a sleaze". Just because Karen went with it doesn't make his action justifiable, imho. Ironically, I never found Stan that much of a sleaze, despite the end result being as it is.

Wait, when was that? I think I'd remember that one! Just... that's a thousand times worse than Stan - or anyone in the strip but Bob, Elmer, Charlotte, Gary, and maybe Cyndi - ever did.

[Fen]

http://www.pennyandaggie.com/index.php?p=809

What he does to get the HHHH is left to the imagination(but I can think of very few situations in which I would have that sort of reaction...), and sure, she's only half-convinced by her own arguments but she's still saying no.

(and ok, I remembered wrong. She's not against the wall.)

I think what got Stan on the hate-fest was the end result(Shelly's disorder), whereas Omar got excused since karen liked it(which kind of makes it worse...but I might just be very sensitive about it). Stan's end result wasn't really his fault, though.

[mindstalk]

Well, she never actually *says* no. She gives reasons for saying no, but she doesn't say no.

Next page, they've moved on to having outright sex.

[Valerie]

Well, she never actually *says* no. She gives reasons for saying no, but she doesn't say no.

Next page, they've moved on to having outright sex.

...There is so much wrong with that line of thinking.
"She didn't say no. She showed that she wasn't interested, but she didn't say 'no.'"

[Alice Macher]

It was well before my "time" on the forum, but I do note there was a very lengthy and heated debate as to whether there was consent or not.

[Fen]

The problem with rape is that the overdone stereotypes in the media always show the violent rapes(involving roofies or strangers in dark alleys), when in fact the more common situation starts exactly like Omar started it right there...

[SomeCanadianWeirdo]

Consent was an ongoing issue with Karen, both in those panels with Omar, and in a reverse fashion with the notorious shower scene with Marshall.

[maritza]

Omar seduced Karen.

Stan tried to convince Karen to have sex with him as a political move.

Guess who's worse.

I differ: Stan WAS in a relationship, officially, with Michelle. He was his boyfriend. It wasn't like the open relationship he had with Brandi.

If he didn't "have the heart" to break up with a girl he really wasn't interested, and lead her up for months, and tried to make her break up with him by cheating on her, then Stan's a balless coward.