9/12/11 "You gotta find that ZEN"

[Makkabee]

I love the irony of Fred putting on weight while doing PR for a fitness campaign.

[oenone]

I do think that the focus on women and the retrofuture trend is getting a little fanservicey.



or this:



Would be really neat fashion choices for men.

Also: accessories.

I'm glad Fred looks happy.

[Shadrach]

I wonder whether T and Jason are simply indulging themselves a bit, as in "Hey, it's the last chapter, and since people are going to complain non-stop about the outfits no matter how many fashion magazines/websites we study, and no matter how much we consult with Gis, let's just draw whatever we want!"

More seriously: regarding the "T and Jason are men, and therefore they can't 'get' fashion" thing...uh, why is it, then, that so many leading fashion designers are male? Are they all cross-dressing women in reality?

Or is it that some human beings, period, have a particular flair for fashion?

Conversely, we all know our share of women as well as men who have no idea how to dress themselves, or their children. So can we please not make this into a gender controversy? We already had a race controversy in this chapter, so I think we've reached our quota.

[CBrachyrhynchos]

And here, I thought that T and Jason were going for an alt-reality future view ala the absolutely brilliant Love and Rockets.

[Hexr]

Conversely, we all know our share of women as well as men who have no idea how to dress themselves, or their children. So can we please not make this into a gender controversy? We already had a race controversy in this chapter, so I think we've reached our quota.

On the contrary! We already had a race controversy in this chapter, so I think gender controversy is simply logical and appropriate.
On completely, utterly unrelated news, I have just come to a realization that all lesbian(/bisexual, but currently in a relationship with a woman) women I have met IRL are apparently smarter than people in average (in terms of IQ and/or certain skills [mainly social], at least). I think there's a feminist joke hidden there somewhere... The reason I brought this tidbit to your information is that I have an economics assignment to do and I am desperately trying to procrastinate.

[Valerie]

More seriously: regarding the "T and Jason are men, and therefore they can't 'get' fashion" thing...uh, why is it, then, that so many leading fashion designers are male? Are they all cross-dressing women in reality?

Business/success is still pretty male-dominated, in basically every form. A lot of professional chefs are men, too, even though that's traditionally a "woman's job." To be fair, I don't really know the fashion industry well enough to know whether those guys are, in fact, cross-dressers.

But what I can say is that it's probably like any other profession-- you're gonna have to put some work into it. These guys have studied fashion. Most guys, who are not fashion designers, do not study women's fashion. Soooo it still makes sense to assume that, of the people who haven't studied women's fashion (all men and women who are not designers/models, pretty much), the ones who understand women's fashion best would be the women who wear women's fashion.

Edit: Or the men who wear women's fashion, but I think most of them identify as women, anyway.

[Davidj]

Urgh. I gotta say, I am seriously not buying any of this. I mean, look, yeah, Fashion can be sort of unpredictable, I admit. But the lines of what is tasteful and what isn't at a semiformal gathering just doesn't change this much in five years.

This is true... But then the joke here is that this is the future-uture-uture. Why are women dressed like science fiction characters? Why is Brandy the star of a sport that doesn't exist? Because this is the future-uture-uture! There's a low but non-zero chance of a robot apocalypse next Tuesday! I bet someone will leave in a flying car because the future always has flying cars. One of the funniest jokes I ever saw on the Simpson's was them showing next week...which has flying cars because the future always has flying cars.

[Valerie]

I wonder if this is an alt-reality sort of future, like with 20 20/20 Pennys. >_>
On that note, I just noticed that T has it as "Pennies." Grammar errorrrr. Proper nouns just have "s" at the end.

[CBrachyrhynchos]

Conversely, we all know our share of women as well as men who have no idea how to dress themselves, or their children. So can we please not make this into a gender controversy? We already had a race controversy in this chapter, so I think we've reached our quota.

On the contrary! We already had a race controversy in this chapter, so I think gender controversy is simply logical and appropriate.
On completely, utterly unrelated news, I have just come to a realization that all lesbian(/bisexual, but currently in a relationship with a woman) women I have met IRL are apparently smarter than people in average (in terms of IQ and/or certain skills [mainly social], at least). I think there's a feminist joke hidden there somewhere... The reason I brought this tidbit to your information is that I have an economics assignment to do and I am desperately trying to procrastinate.

And if we really want to jump the shark there's always:
Bronies vs. furries.

[TCampbell]

I dunno if it qualifies as a "joke," exactly, but there is definitely a playful, carefree attitude to the depiction of certain details about the future here. I'm more interested in taking a breath and thinking about the possibilities than trying to nail down "this is exactly what 2017 will be like." Because I have tried to predict the future more seriously before, and it never went well. I mean, really, who would've predicted Lady Gaga in 2005? Or xkcd becoming one of the most popular comics in existence? Or Bronyism?

When it comes to fashion, I'm torn between mea culpas and defending my choices. Valerie, I can certainly say that the three women artists whom I've worked with for sustained periods, did seem to have an instinctive understanding of fashion, particularly women's fashion, that I envy. And I'm prepared to admit that the fashion side of the series was uneven following Gisele's departure. All too often I slipped into a largely apathetic attitude about it, from years of basically letting Gisele clothe them however she wanted except for very special occasions. Not to say I didn't care about the scripts-- never!-- but I was focused on other areas. Jason thrives best on direction, and that's something I need to remember. (Phil has stepped up, more than he should have to, when it comes to detailing in the recent Guilded Age scripts. One of the reasons I'm taking a breather between P&A and its spinoff is to refresh my approach on this.)

That said, sometimes the critics were wrong. Sometimes our best-researched outfits were greeted with calls of "oh, who would ever wear that?" Because once a certain meme settles into criticism, it can become a reflex. I'll admit that it's kind of a relief, honestly, to be depicting an era of fashion that no one can reasonably claim to be an expert about. To those who think they know why the pace of this development is off, or its heterogeneity, I respectfully disagree.

I distinctly remember the Britney Spears-inspired era that informed this series' early clothing choices. It seems unimaginable to some of us now that such short, revealing outfits were ever considered stylish in any setting-- and yes, I happened to see some of them in settings not unlike this one. But there was also a lot of conflict, at the time, between people who were adopting that trend and people who preferred a more conservative look.

That was six or seven years ago. This is six or seven years from now.

But again, nobody knows the details of the future for sure. All we can do is imagine.

[justvisiting]

I'm still not a huge fan of Daphne's dress (though it did look better once she was able to let go of Tharqua), but count me in the "not seeing the big deal here" camp. So far, we've seen three cast members sporting these looks: Helen, who probably is working for a company (Nerdrotica) whose clientele would embrace this trend; Daphne, who also keeps up with this stuff for her job; and Brandi, whose outfit wouldn't look out of place on the Williams sisters. (Or Project Runway, for that matter: I can't recall an example of a romper outfit like this that I actually liked as much as this one, but there have been plenty in a similar style.)

As for smackball, T's already confirmed what I suspected in the Q&A: just because Brandi's found a few fans at this event doesn't mean that it's replaced roller derby or arena football in popularity, let alone the NFL. She may very well be the face of an aggressive marketing campaign for the league, but how many people have gone on to check out the sport itself beyond our not-very-mainstream-looking friend here is left open enough that I can buy it. Plus, it might wind up inadvertently dating the comic more to speculate on whether or not the WNBA will still be around six years from whenever people start reading the archives.

[Lia S]

Soooo it still makes sense to assume that, of the people who haven't studied women's fashion (all men and women who are not designers/models, pretty much), the ones who understand women's fashion best would be the women who wear women's fashion.

Edit: Or the men who wear women's fashion, but I think most of them identify as women, anyway.

And yet loads of people thought that Tharqa in her awful outfit was Transtan.

In other news, I think "Smackball" sounds violent and painful. But that might just be my dirty mind.

[Freemage]

I'll admit, my first thoughts, upon hearing the term "smackball" and seeing Brandi's outfit from the rear, were not pure and innocent....

In any case, I do think that much of this comic feels more appropriate to a ten-year, rather than a five-year reunion. Acting careers can spike as rapidly as Sara's seemingly has, but most others (such as fashion) take years post-college to actually become a known presence in, unless you happen to win a reality show competition on Bravo. The fashion angle actually bugs me LESS than that, simply because, as T notes, fashions often move with surprising speed to somewhat absurd positions. I find it much stranger, honestly, that virtually everyone seems to have settled into their career paths and have an established significant other (both are currently trending later in life, not earlier, at least outside of the Deep South, where teen pregnancy is more endemic to shotgun weddings) than to see them wearing outfits that leave me scratching my head.

[mindstalk]

IME as a 30-something from a top tech college, people didn't marry much but they often had SOs, even if not always ones they'd keep. Indiana University seemed to have more marriage. My niece in Spokane is 21 and engaged and I doubt there's anything "pushing" her into that.

I thought the stereotype about fashion designers was their being gay.

AFAIK domestic cooking is a traditional female endeavor, at least in cultures we're familiar with. Being a *chef* for money is traditionally male.

T will drop in a few that the Singularity happened 4 Septembers ago. :p

Daphne and Brandi and Fred having Careers already does seem unusual but eh.

[zeekoe]

I'll admit, my first thoughts, upon hearing the term "smackball" and seeing Brandi's outfit from the rear, were not pure and innocent....

In any case, I do think that much of this comic feels more appropriate to a ten-year, rather than a five-year reunion. Acting careers can spike as rapidly as Sara's seemingly has, but most others (such as fashion) take years post-college to actually become a known presence in, unless you happen to win a reality show competition on Bravo. The fashion angle actually bugs me LESS than that, simply because, as T notes, fashions often move with surprising speed to somewhat absurd positions. I find it much stranger, honestly, that virtually everyone seems to have settled into their career paths and have an established significant other (both are currently trending later in life, not earlier, at least outside of the Deep South, where teen pregnancy is more endemic to shotgun weddings) than to see them wearing outfits that leave me scratching my head.

Most people five years out of high school don't actually have great, established career paths, but it has been my experience that plenty of people five years out of high school are TALKING about their current jobs as though they are indicative of some great career path (especially if they are talking themselves up at a reunion). I don't think we've really seen anything that indicates that Sara is starring in Hollywood blockbusters or that Daphne is doing anything more impressive than working for a designer who may or may not be particularly well-known. (Just like I doubt that Tharqua's novel is anything that will be burning up the bestsellers list.)