5 Sept 11: Some other ideas

[Adrishiana]

Point. I made an assumption; I should know by now where those get me.

For what it's worth, Katy Ann is supposed to be Episcopalian.

[magga_rae]

words

I don't have any intention of getting into the race debate at the moment, so I just want to combo break and tell you, Magga Rae, that I LOVE your avatar!

Bahahaha! Yeah, to be honest, my avatar's probably far deeper and more enlightening than any opinion I've ever had about anything! I does love me some Boosh, it must be said...

[maritza]

Though . . .
The thing that DOES bother me with this strip is Katy Ann. If someone started spouting off that kind of nonsense to me I'd walk away from them. And of course I don't think this is some terrible lapse in judgement of the creators. Just a simple difference of opinion.

KA is ALWAYS like that. Always with the well-intentioned crap and smack-you-over-the-head "wisdom". And occasionally she says terrible things like "I wish we had broken the condom on purpose" and "concentrate on being the girl who attracts the kind of guy you want".

¬.¬

[sgtrock]

Point. I made an assumption; I should know by now where those get me.

For what it's worth, Katy Ann is supposed to be Episcopalian.

Back in the day, my very Catholic best friend used to tease me that being baptized Episcopalian meant that I was Catholic without the Latin sermons (which gives you an idea as to just how long ago that was...)

[Llei]

See, I'm not mad at Jason or T, and I haven't seen anyone in this thread put a gun up to either of their heads and demand that they change it. This is feedback. You know, one of the most valuable things any creator can receive? Just because this feedback is "this drawing is problematic and here's why" instead of "OMG DUANEBEARD SQUEEEEE" does not mean that anybody is bullying T.

Feedback can go both ways, though. "I hear that you are offended but 'niggardly' has nothing to do with 'nigger'." "People look like this, and this art style has been used by the comic before for non-Asian people and by Asian people for themselves."

Coming out of eternal lurkerdom here, but I don't think that's a fair comparison. I'm sure you're completely sincere that the picture didn't strike you as problematic when you saw it. But the instant my eyes lit on that panel I heard the Oriental Riff of a hundred awful Loony Toon adventures. The insinuation in your analogy is that everyone here whose cultural and genre experiences gave them that reaction is ignorant. That''s demonstrably not the case. Such a line of argument turns valid debate and discussion into a fight with strawmen.

[SomeCanadianWeirdo]

awwww, duane is all grown up and cultivating a Professorial Beard

there's only one problem: i can't quite tell what race his date is supposed to be...

The Voice of God, aka T. Campbell, stated over in the question and answer thread she's Yun-Sung from the "Minjung" chapter of P&A, hence South Korean.

[Sphinx]

But doesn't it kind of make sense to have his long-term-enough-to-bring-to-the-reunion hot girlfriend be a muslim? You know...like him? Having her Mongolian(for example) makes sense. And since there is only a limited amount of space dedicated to this reunion(thank god, cause every panel is just begging for extended discussion), instead of showing a normal girl or showing her wearing a hajib(which would've stirred even more hate), they just went with the show-that-she's-not-your-average-whitechristianbelleviller as a detail. All's good.

A normal girl? As opposed to an abnormal girl wearing a hijab? Ouch. As a usually-normal Muslim reader, that kind of stings. I don't even want to get into the fact that you're implying that Asian girls are not normal... by normal, I assume you meant clear cut white/black? Because, FYI, black and white girls can wear hijab and still be normal.
Also, Muslim men marry non-Muslims all the time.

As for the comic, I can see what people are talking about, but I think there will probably be a lot of dates at this reunion who don't say much of anything... because they're not really that important. I don't think it's a racist depiction, but maybe that's because I'm still not 100 percent sure what race she is supposed to be. Then again, I don't really care. The fact that Katy and Jack had an accidental pregnancy is much more interesting to me. Before or after they were married? Before or AFTER??

[NobodySpecial]

But doesn't it kind of make sense to have his long-term-enough-to-bring-to-the-reunion hot girlfriend be a muslim? You know...like him? Having her Mongolian(for example) makes sense. And since there is only a limited amount of space dedicated to this reunion(thank god, cause every panel is just begging for extended discussion), instead of showing a normal girl or showing her wearing a hajib(which would've stirred even more hate), they just went with the show-that-she's-not-your-average-whitechristianbelleviller as a detail. All's good.

A normal girl? As opposed to an abnormal girl wearing a hijab? Ouch. As a usually-normal Muslim reader, that kind of stings. I don't even want to get into the fact that you're implying that Asian girls are not normal... by normal, I assume you meant clear cut white/black? Because, FYI, black and white girls can wear hijab and still be normal.
Also, Muslim men marry non-Muslims all the time.

As for the comic, I can see what people are talking about, but I think there will probably be a lot of dates at this reunion who don't say much of anything... because they're not really that important. I don't think it's a racist depiction, but maybe that's because I'm still not 100 percent sure what race she is supposed to be. Then again, I don't really care. The fact that Katy and Jack had an accidental pregnancy is much more interesting to me. Before or after they were married? Before or AFTER??

Asked and answered at the Q&A thread: After. And Yun-Sung is South Korean.

[retrophrenologist]

On a lighter note: it's possible to read the word balloons in the third panel in this order:

"Graphic design pays the bills, and I only fantasise about beating up clients twice a week these days."
"Let me know if you need help there. I might have some ideas."

...yep, Duane is now a hitman. His specialty is, of course, removing people's eyes.

Well, I was wondering whether any of the Belleville High alumni would turn out to be a hitman, Grosse Point Blank-style... but my money would have been on Tharqa.

[adamiani]

Anyone else find it interesting to note that Katy-Ann is catholic enough to wait until marriage for sex, but not catholic enough to fore-go use of birth control?

[Insert Episcopalian gag here]

[adamiani]

awwww, duane is all grown up and cultivating a Professorial Beard

there's only one problem: i can't quite tell what race his date is supposed to be...

The Voice of God, aka T. Campbell, stated over in the question and answer thread she's Yun-Sung from the "Minjung" chapter of P&A, hence South Korean.

Sweeeeeeeet.

[retrophrenologist]

Anyone else find it interesting to note that Katy-Ann is catholic enough to wait until marriage for sex, but not catholic enough to fore-go use of birth control?

[Insert Episcopalian gag here]

No, Katy-Ann only inserts the Episcopalian gag on Jack's birthday, as a special treat.

[Hasedoki]

Though . . .
The thing that DOES bother me with this strip is Katy Ann. If someone started spouting off that kind of nonsense to me I'd walk away from them. And of course I don't think this is some terrible lapse in judgement of the creators. Just a simple difference of opinion.

KA is ALWAYS like that. Always with the well-intentioned crap and smack-you-over-the-head "wisdom". And occasionally she says terrible things like "I wish we had broken the condom on purpose" and "concentrate on being the girl who attracts the kind of guy you want".

¬.¬

It usually doesn't bother me though. I think because she usually says just generally good advice and keeps the "God touches everything" religious stuff out of it. I can see where some people could have a problem with her but just this for me.

But the condom breaking thing is just a weird line. I think it just means they wish they had actually planned to have the kid.

[Valerie]

That said, I do feel this is the artistic equivalent of a poorly chosen phrase, and should be treated as such. It conveys an impression, unmeant, unintended and unwanted, and for that reason, I would urge T. and Jason to talk about possibly altering the fourth panel, in particular, to make the eyes more visible. While it's fair to want to convey her ethnicity (especially on the longshot chance that it actually is Min Jung; I love that interpretation), I think Jason's capable of doing so without such an extreme fashion.

And the worst part is, that T said earlier in this thread that Duane's companion is an straight-haired African-American woman. So this drawing is problematic, not only because it strikes people as a racist caricature, but also because it incorrectly informs the viewer of her actual ethnicity.

So it's misleading in a way that offends people. Sounds ripe for an edit to me.

He said it was Yun Sung in the Q&A thread. Someone else suggested that she looked black (the shading shows differently on different monitors or something).

Is Duane's partner anyone we've met before (whether here or in the Fansverse)?

She's Yun-Sung, but you wouldn't recognize her with the art style change and everything.

Edit: This has been addressed like twice. I really should read the whole thread first. >_> Sorry.

[nymosy]

Though . . .
The thing that DOES bother me with this strip is Katy Ann. If someone started spouting off that kind of nonsense to me I'd walk away from them. And of course I don't think this is some terrible lapse in judgement of the creators. Just a simple difference of opinion.

KA is ALWAYS like that. Always with the well-intentioned crap and smack-you-over-the-head "wisdom". And occasionally she says terrible things like "I wish we had broken the condom on purpose" and "concentrate on being the girl who attracts the kind of guy you want".

¬.¬

but we don't even know if KA is really white. she could be hispanic! just a sec i'll link pictures of hispanic people with dyed hair

The Voice of God, aka T. Campbell, stated over in the question and answer thread she's Yun-Sung from the "Minjung" chapter of P&A, hence South Korean.

awww, Yun-Sung is all grown up and cultivating a Caricature Face