[8/1/11]I...didn't want drama.

[Valerie]

Two?
Last I checked Brandi dumped him, on some pretty arbitrary grounds that suggested that she didn't really value their relationship to begin with.

Now hold on a sec, I'm kind of on the defending-Stan side here, but I'm little bothered by this.

She didn't want to be second to his pride. No one should have to be second to their SO's pride. That's ridiculous. She loved him, possibly still does, but she had to take herself out of what might have turned into a bad situation. That doesn't mean she didn't value their relationship. She just saw that they had different ideas about priorities and jumped ship. There's nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't make her feelings invalid.

Yeah, but...

All he said was "I've never told anyone I was in a relationship when I wasn't," which was true, and then exchanged an innuendo with Cyndi which would have been flirty if the circumstances didn't obviously prohibit flirtation-- downgrading them to barbs. It's spun as him putting his pride first, but... really, I think she blew it completely out of proportion.

I suppose that's the sort of thing that varies from person to person. I wasn't bothered by whether she took it the wrong way or whatever, just that your statement was vague enough to suggest that she didn't care about him simply for wanting better for herself. Could have been a misunderstanding.

[Valerie]

They don't have to like him, they don't have to associate with him, they don't even have to look in his direction when he walks past. The thing is that they're demonizing him. He might not be the best guy, he might do a lot of things that feel sleazy, but he's not completely bad. We always want to think the worst of people who have hurt us, because it helps us to stay angry at them, but even bad people tend to have some good qualities.

I think I'm most bugged by the fact that everyone here keeps saying, "Penny's not telling her friends who they can and can't hang out with" while Penny and Sara are clearly about to use Lisa as a scratching post when Lisa was just trying to help simply because she got the help from someone they don't like.

I mean, it seems like the only other camera option they had was Sara's possible connections, and that clearly didn't happen. So maybe they should ease up a little.

This.

This this this.

This with sprinkles on top.

THIS.

THIS!

Note to budding film director Aggie. It's not about who you like, it's about who you need to cut deals with to get the freakin' film produced!

More'r'less, yeah. In the grownup world, you have to work with people you don't like sometimes. You either learn to bite your tongue or you starve to death because you can't hold a job.

[bunnyThor]

Okay, so Duane didn't get fully ostracized when he started befriending the very unpopular Charlotte (whose transgressions against the Pennies were a bit deeper than Stan's debate whatevers). So with that precedent set, the fallout against Lisa here should be minimal -- if everyone is being fair and consistent.

[Adrishiana]

More'r'less, yeah. In the grownup world, you have to work with people you don't like sometimes. You either learn to bite your tongue or you starve to death because you can't hold a job.

To be fair, your grownup bosses don't often care if you LIKE your coworkers as long as you are CIVIL to them (which, it has been demonstrated, Sara, Penny, and Aggie can be to Stan) and aren't causing trouble.

...Funnily enough, in my *employment experience, the least-liked coworkers have often been the most Stan-like. (Lisa-like coworkers, meanwhile, can be VERY hit or miss.)

Okay, so Duane didn't get fully ostracized when he started befriending the very unpopular Charlotte (whose transgressions against the Pennies were a bit deeper than Stan's debate whatevers). So with that precedent set, the fallout against Lisa here should be minimal -- if everyone is being fair and consistent.

This depends. So far we haven't seen a problem with the fact that Lisa is friends with Stan, just the fact that she tried to manipulate the others into being friends with Stan. People did question Duane's decision to befriend Charlotte (if I remember correctly - speak up if I'm wrong here), but she seemed to join the group in a somewhat more organic fashion, without any pushiness or deception on Duane's part, and it wasn't completely seamless.

*Taco Bell, Meijer's, Kohl's, a law library, a computer lab, Banana Republic (disaster) and my current telecommute job - the telecommute job and the law library don't entirely count for these purposes, though.

[Freemage]

More'r'less, yeah. In the grownup world, you have to work with people you don't like sometimes. You either learn to bite your tongue or you starve to death because you can't hold a job.

To be fair, your grownup bosses don't often care if you LIKE your coworkers as long as you are CIVIL to them (which, it has been demonstrated, Sara, Penny, and Aggie can be to Stan) and aren't causing trouble.

...Funnily enough, in my *employment experience, the least-liked coworkers have often been the most Stan-like. (Lisa-like coworkers, meanwhile, can be VERY hit or miss.)

Okay, so Duane didn't get fully ostracized when he started befriending the very unpopular Charlotte (whose transgressions against the Pennies were a bit deeper than Stan's debate whatevers). So with that precedent set, the fallout against Lisa here should be minimal -- if everyone is being fair and consistent.

This depends. So far we haven't seen a problem with the fact that Lisa is friends with Stan, just the fact that she tried to manipulate the others into being friends with Stan. People did question Duane's decision to befriend Charlotte (if I remember correctly - speak up if I'm wrong here), but she seemed to join the group in a somewhat more organic fashion, without any pushiness or deception on Duane's part, and it wasn't completely seamless.

Well, Lisa probably felt, after the Switch party (and Stan's deliberate exclusion by Penny) that there wasn't going to be an opportunity to re-introduce him "organically" the way Duane did with Charlotte, either. I'm not saying she was right in how she went about it, she just may have gotten the impression that, with Penny on a "Stan is dead to me" kick, and Aggie and Penny being co-smoochers, that there was just no way to get him invited to a get-together without, as she said, "drama". Again, not defending her decision to lie, merely understanding the thought-process that led to it.

[Arky]

I got the impression they were keeping their relationship a secret because they weren't sure how to break it to Michelle, who would obviously be hurt. However, once the cat was out of the bag, they didn't have much incentive to keep it secret--the only reason left was so that Stan could continue to play the ladies' man to win votes for the election. There isn't much evidence that Brandi wanted him to keep things a secret after Michelle knew--this was his decision, and one that ended up speaking volumes to Brandi about his level of commitment to her.

That's just speculation. Nothing was shown to say Brandi wanted it open, or told Stan she wanted it open. To the contrary, she participated in Stan's campaign along with other scantily-clad girls with every sign she was enjoying it and a willing participant in crafting the "Stan the Ladies' Man" image.

[JackFairy]

Okay, so Duane didn't get fully ostracized when he started befriending the very unpopular Charlotte (whose transgressions against the Pennies were a bit deeper than Stan's debate whatevers). So with that precedent set, the fallout against Lisa here should be minimal -- if everyone is being fair and consistent.

But Duane never burst into a room and started yelling about how everybody ought to accept Charlotte and be friends with her. He mostly hung out with her one on one, and when others said they found Charlotte unforgivable, he said he understood why they felt that way, but he felt there was untapped potential there and he thought she could change. Gradually, as people noticed the changes in Charlotte and saw how much she meant to Duane, they started slowly reaching out to her again.

This is not how Lisa has handled the situation. Rather the opposite. And Stan has not shown any sort of change or regret whatsoever, either.

Well, Lisa probably felt, after the Switch party (and Stan's deliberate exclusion by Penny) that there wasn't going to be an opportunity to re-introduce him "organically" the way Duane did with Charlotte, either. I'm not saying she was right in how she went about it, she just may have gotten the impression that, with Penny on a "Stan is dead to me" kick, and Aggie and Penny being co-smoochers, that there was just no way to get him invited to a get-together without, as she said, "drama". Again, not defending her decision to lie, merely understanding the thought-process that led to it.

There were plenty of get-togethers that Charlotte was also bluntly excluded from. Duane was more patient and didn't even try to bring her in where she wasn't welcome--because unlike Lisa, he actually acknowledged that the others had valid reasons to keep their distance. It took a good long while for Charlotte to win back even a modicum of acceptance, and that was also because she was in fact reassessing her beliefs. The fact that Stan is doing no such thing and the fact that Lisa

a) refuses to respect her friends' reasons for not wanting to associate with him
b) is trying to force them to do so

makes pretty much all the difference.

[NobodySpecial]

Also, the only time Charlotte got together with them was while Sara wasn't there.

[MudFlap33]

I got the impression they were keeping their relationship a secret because they weren't sure how to break it to Michelle, who would obviously be hurt. However, once the cat was out of the bag, they didn't have much incentive to keep it secret--the only reason left was so that Stan could continue to play the ladies' man to win votes for the election. There isn't much evidence that Brandi wanted him to keep things a secret after Michelle knew--this was his decision, and one that ended up speaking volumes to Brandi about his level of commitment to her.

That's just speculation. Nothing was shown to say Brandi wanted it open, or told Stan she wanted it open. To the contrary, she participated in Stan's campaign along with other scantily-clad girls with every sign she was enjoying it and a willing participant in crafting the "Stan the Ladies' Man" image.

Yeah, but look at her face as she does it. http://www.pennyandaggie.com/index.php?p=1027 I could be misreading it, but I've always thought she looked skeezed the hell out. And yeah, I am speculating, but part of my speculation is based on my reading of her expression, which says to me, 'this is a little skeezy, but I love Stan, and I want him to succeed, so I will help him out on his campaign even though I feel a little uncomfortable.' So though Brandi was willing to put her own wishes and comfort slightly aside due to her feelings for Stan, he was not willing to reciprocate by even acknowledging the fact that they were together. That's my reading anyway, but as there isn't much concrete for either of us to go on, I suspect we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Jabroniville]

...Funnily enough, in my *employment experience, the least-liked coworkers have often been the most Stan-like. (Lisa-like coworkers, meanwhile, can be VERY hit or miss.)

Yeah, I find Lisa-like ones to be the worst, personally. They tend to be high-energy, annoying, and quite often seem to be know-it-alls for whatever reason (in the "I know what's best for everyone" kind of way). Stan-types are often directly ambitious and manipulative, but like you said, they're so obviously-bad (it's hard to be a true Manipulative Bastard in real life- people aren't as brain-dead and easy-to-train as they appear to be in the media) that they make no real friends, and often don't move up in the company because they ticked off the wrong person.

[Adrishiana]

...Funnily enough, in my *employment experience, the least-liked coworkers have often been the most Stan-like. (Lisa-like coworkers, meanwhile, can be VERY hit or miss.)

Yeah, I find Lisa-like ones to be the worst, personally. They tend to be high-energy, annoying, and quite often seem to be know-it-alls for whatever reason (in the "I know what's best for everyone" kind of way). Stan-types are often directly ambitious and manipulative, but like you said, they're so obviously-bad (it's hard to be a true Manipulative Bastard in real life- people aren't as brain-dead and easy-to-train as they appear to be in the media) that they make no real friends, and often don't move up in the company because they ticked off the wrong person.

To some extent, it seems to depend on how much actual work the coworker in question does (not to mention, how much they interfere with you doing YOUR work), say nothing of the nature of the job itself.

Of course, neither Stan nor Lisa are actually evil. Working with Karen or Cyndi could be a miserable experience (if not an actually dangerous one), as opposed to just irritating.

[maritza]

Ugh. Stan's whole campaign was just so... so disgusting.

Herpes man, herpes man. Does whatever an herpes can.

[CEOIII]

Ugh. Stan's whole campaign was just so... so disgusting.

Herpes man, herpes man. Does whatever an herpes can.

[Captain Grammar]A herpes. Not an. A.

MY WORK IS DONE HERE! *flies off*[/Captain Grammar]