[25 Mar 11] Let me get you out of those clothes

[Demonicoreo]

I honestly think the 2020 Penny's end said it all. Penny on the couch looking professional and in charge with Aggie confessing how Penny broke her of her hippie phase while giving her a foot massage and being submissive to Penny to the point of even how she talks to her. Penny crushes wills to mold what she wants and Aggie does not look to be an exception to this fact. Penny gets what she wants.

[Anonymous3]

I would note that this continues the trend of Penny having just WAY too much confidence about this whole thing. ("well that's an appealing image"?) For something she'd been unconsciously dealing with for most of the strip, then pushing to the surface-- I know she's teasing Aggie here too, and she's always been self confident-- but this seems like something that would be terrifying along with exhilarating.

Penny had a chance to work through all that when 1) Sara first suggested Penny was into Aggie and 2) when Sara came out, Penny was confronted with that far more than anyone else.

[greenglowinggoo]

I honestly think the 2020 Penny's end said it all. Penny on the couch looking professional and in charge with Aggie confessing how Penny broke her of her hippie phase while giving her a foot massage and being submissive to Penny to the point of even how she talks to her. Penny crushes wills to mold what she wants and Aggie does not look to be an exception to this fact. Penny gets what she wants.

I don't see how what Aggie is saying is submissive. And Aggie looks rather professional too. Besides, if Penny actually broke somebody, she'd completely lose interest. Kinda like how she lost (or couldn't muster up much) interest in Duane. When I look at the 2020 penny and aggie, it's an interesting parallel to how things are starting. You get to see they continue to rib each other, and Penny is the one who goes for the innuendo.

[musikitty]

Maybe that says "confidence" to you, but to me all it says is "determination." You can be certain that you want to take a certain set of actions, without any confidence in the short- or long-term outcomes.

To me, the key distinguishing mark of determination vs. confidence is that determination shows some doubt but is willing to forge ahead anyway, whereas confidence completely stamps out doubt. Without seeing Penny's doubt, I feel left to conclude that she doesn't have any, and is thus confident rather than simply determined.

[CEOIII]

There is something to be said for someone who's all "This is what I want, and I don't know if I can get it, but I AM GOING TO FUCKING TRY. *charges ahead*"

Having said that, this Sunday around 10pm, Aggie would be somewhat justified in screaming "I'M NOT YOUR BARBIE DOLL!" and running. Not completely justified, but somewhat justified.

[TCampbell]

Maybe that says "confidence" to you, but to me all it says is "determination." You can be certain that you want to take a certain set of actions, without any confidence in the short- or long-term outcomes.

To me, the key distinguishing mark of determination vs. confidence is that determination shows some doubt but is willing to forge ahead anyway, whereas confidence completely stamps out doubt. Without seeing Penny's doubt, I feel left to conclude that she doesn't have any, and is thus confident rather than simply determined.

...Sure, but... "Not saying I'm IN love?" "This has at least a one-in-twenty chance of making me happier [which at least implies that it may not]?" "Long-term, I don't know anything?" I feel like there must be some kind of semantic disconnect going on here, because right now, the idea that we haven't seen Penny's doubt just makes no sense to me.

Edit to add: Penny is more confident in her sexual charms than Aggie is, by a considerable margin, given her greater sexual experience and her original role of high school prom queen versus Aggie's of weirdo loner. So yes, when flirting, Penny is much surer of herself than Aggie is-- and Penny likes being sure of herself, so she'll keep teasing as long as Aggie neither ignores her nor gets really upset with her.

[greenglowinggoo]

There is something to be said for someone who's all "This is what I want, and I don't know if I can get it, but I AM GOING TO FUCKING TRY. *charges ahead*"

Having said that, this Sunday around 10pm, Aggie would be somewhat justified in screaming "I'M NOT YOUR BARBIE DOLL!" and running. Not completely justified, but somewhat justified.

I'm hoping Aggie fights back, but maybe no so whinerbaby-y.

[Alice Macher]

There is something to be said for someone who's all "This is what I want, and I don't know if I can get it, but I AM GOING TO FUCKING TRY. *charges ahead*"

Alice Macher likes this.

[WildfireDS]

There is something to be said for someone who's all "This is what I want, and I don't know if I can get it, but I AM GOING TO FUCKING TRY. *charges ahead*"

Having said that, this Sunday around 10pm, Aggie would be somewhat justified in screaming "I'M NOT YOUR BARBIE DOLL!" and running. Not completely justified, but somewhat justified.

I'm hoping Aggie fights back, but maybe no so whinerbaby-y.

I'm hoping Aggie talks about why it freaks her out. Because otherwise, this relationship doesn't really have a chance of lasting very long. As has just been demonstrated by a different couple in the strip.

[musikitty]

Maybe that says "confidence" to you, but to me all it says is "determination." You can be certain that you want to take a certain set of actions, without any confidence in the short- or long-term outcomes.

To me, the key distinguishing mark of determination vs. confidence is that determination shows some doubt but is willing to forge ahead anyway, whereas confidence completely stamps out doubt. Without seeing Penny's doubt, I feel left to conclude that she doesn't have any, and is thus confident rather than simply determined.

...Sure, but... "Not saying I'm IN love?" "This has at least a one-in-twenty chance of making me happier [which at least implies that it may not]?" "Long-term, I don't know anything?" I feel like there must be some kind of semantic disconnect going on here, because right now, the idea that we haven't seen Penny's doubt just makes no sense to me.

See, those just sound like normal start-of-a-relationship phrases to me. Of course she's not in love yet, of course she's not sure it'll work out, of course she just wants to give it a try and see where things go. That's how everyone feels, I imagine anyway, at the start. You can say those things going into a relationship (or non-relationship) and still be pretty confident. But that doesn't even come close to the amount of turmoil I'd imagine she'd feel at the prospect of her first gay relationship, especially considering how much she's struggled with her feelings towards Aggie in the past.

EDIT: I do see your point about Penny being more sexually confident, and more confident with flirting/relationships in general. I dunno, the scene still just feels "off" to me.

[CEOIII]

There is something to be said for someone who's all "This is what I want, and I don't know if I can get it, but I AM GOING TO FUCKING TRY. *charges ahead*"

Alice Macher likes this.

*bows*

[TCampbell]

Maybe that says "confidence" to you, but to me all it says is "determination." You can be certain that you want to take a certain set of actions, without any confidence in the short- or long-term outcomes.

To me, the key distinguishing mark of determination vs. confidence is that determination shows some doubt but is willing to forge ahead anyway, whereas confidence completely stamps out doubt. Without seeing Penny's doubt, I feel left to conclude that she doesn't have any, and is thus confident rather than simply determined.

...Sure, but... "Not saying I'm IN love?" "This has at least a one-in-twenty chance of making me happier [which at least implies that it may not]?" "Long-term, I don't know anything?" I feel like there must be some kind of semantic disconnect going on here, because right now, the idea that we haven't seen Penny's doubt just makes no sense to me.

See, those just sound like normal start-of-a-relationship phrases to me. Of course she's not in love yet, of course she's not sure it'll work out, of course she just wants to give it a try and see where things go. That's how everyone feels, I imagine anyway, at the start. You can say those things going into a relationship (or non-relationship) and still be pretty confident. But that doesn't even come close to the amount of turmoil I'd imagine she'd feel at the prospect of her first gay relationship, especially considering how much she's struggled with her feelings towards Aggie in the past.

EDIT: I do see your point about Penny being more sexually confident, and more confident with flirting/relationships in general. I dunno, the scene still just feels "off" to me.

Okay, I think I finally get you here. You're talking about confidence in a very specific context. Orientation confidence, if you will. The confidence that comes from being satisfied in your answers to questions like those Aggie asked herself: "What does this mean? Am I gay/bi/heteroflexible?" In which case... yeah, there's a little more to come on this.

[musikitty]

Maybe that says "confidence" to you, but to me all it says is "determination." You can be certain that you want to take a certain set of actions, without any confidence in the short- or long-term outcomes.

To me, the key distinguishing mark of determination vs. confidence is that determination shows some doubt but is willing to forge ahead anyway, whereas confidence completely stamps out doubt. Without seeing Penny's doubt, I feel left to conclude that she doesn't have any, and is thus confident rather than simply determined.

...Sure, but... "Not saying I'm IN love?" "This has at least a one-in-twenty chance of making me happier [which at least implies that it may not]?" "Long-term, I don't know anything?" I feel like there must be some kind of semantic disconnect going on here, because right now, the idea that we haven't seen Penny's doubt just makes no sense to me.

See, those just sound like normal start-of-a-relationship phrases to me. Of course she's not in love yet, of course she's not sure it'll work out, of course she just wants to give it a try and see where things go. That's how everyone feels, I imagine anyway, at the start. You can say those things going into a relationship (or non-relationship) and still be pretty confident. But that doesn't even come close to the amount of turmoil I'd imagine she'd feel at the prospect of her first gay relationship, especially considering how much she's struggled with her feelings towards Aggie in the past.

EDIT: I do see your point about Penny being more sexually confident, and more confident with flirting/relationships in general. I dunno, the scene still just feels "off" to me.

Okay, I think I finally get you here. You're talking about confidence in a very specific context. Orientation confidence, if you will. The confidence that comes from being satisfied in your answers to questions like those Aggie asked herself: "What does this mean? Am I gay/bi/heteroflexible?" In which case... yeah, there's a little more to come on this.

Oh, sweet. Thanks T!

[dianekikiula]

Wow, Penny. Direct and aggressive. That leer in the last panel is actually a little creepy.

[darklion]

To me, Penny's lack of outward anxiety merely comes from being comfortable with her own expectations for any potential relationship--she's not so much confident in her ability to predict the future as faithful in herself and her ability to handle what comes her way, and she's okay with things not working out. Aggie OTOH has little idea what kind of expectations she should have and what behaviors she should adopt in order to ensure the best possible future for herself. In other words, Aggie's worried about her ability to ensure the best possible outcome from her relationship with Penny. That outcome doesn't have to be a successful long-term romantic relationship, just an outcome that is right for herself in that context, but she has little idea what each of those outcomes entail, and she might have the wrong set of expectations. Aggie's external anxiousness stems from over-thinking every little choice she makes, out of fear that any one could have a drastic impact on her future.