Retrospective: Injustice League; Meg, Karen and Cyndi

[JerrBear]

It all goes back to what Penny said at the end of Celebrity Poker Showdown. Karen didn't want to be second place. Beating Penny would not end her want to be in first place. Karen was willing to do anything to be number one.

With Duane, she knew he'd make a good scapegoat to keep the group she had created together, and her in power in the process.

Now imagine if Karen had succeeded. How long until she went after the next person, or until Cyndi decided for a fingerhold?

[Davidj]

Yeah, she's a real piece of work, bigoted and homophobic too.

Karen was neither of things. Which might actually make it worse. There's at least a certain honesty to a bigot acting on its feelings. Karen didn't care if someone was gay or muslim except how it could be exploited to keep her position at the top of a hill of sand.

[Alice Macher]

Karen was neither of things.

I'm willing to concede the "homophobic" part (although she still bears responsibility for not talking her cohorts out of the video/poster idea), but as for her attitude toward Muslims, I present as evidence the exchange with Cyndi I referred to previously:

Karen: No way! No way!

Cyndi: Way way. [Duane's] quiet about it, but you can see him on the floor [praying] when he thinks no one's watching.

Karen: What, he decided being a nerd wasn't hateable enough?

[Davidj]

Karen was neither of things.

I'm willing to concede the "homophobic" part (although she still bears responsibility for not talking her cohorts out of the video/poster idea), but as for her attitude toward Muslims, I present as evidence the exchange with Cyndi I referred to previously:

Karen: No way! No way!

Cyndi: Way way. [Duane's] quiet about it, but you can see him on the floor [praying] when he thinks no one's watching.

Karen: What, he decided being a nerd wasn't hateable enough?

Her reasoning before sicing the league on him had nothing to do with disliking him or his religion and everything to do with realizing that her pack were about to turn on each other.

[Alice Macher]

That is correct, yes, but the point of disagreement is Karen's personal values and beliefs apart from what the IG did. Maybe we should settle this with naked chocolate pudding wrest--I mean by asking T about what prejudices, if any, Karen harboured.

[Fen]

You know, I always thought of the Karen ending up taking the world comment as an exageration, which most people use all the time without really meaning it. I mean, technically it wasn't even Karen that brought Aggie to that state, Penny was talking abit out of her ass there to prove a point.
The point was that Karen was a bad person, currently affecting both of them. And yes, she's the kind of girl who seeks power by stomping on anything that she can. She would have ended up hurting other people, obviously. Not the world of course, but other people. They dealt with it briefly and it was quick, since karen was the type of girl to hit a downward spiral with the smallest of drawbacks.
Then again, they didn't know Cyndi back then. They assumed it was all Karen's fault and ideas being used. They wouldn't fathom Cyndi intentionally pushing Shelly into anorexia and Brandi into secluding herself from the group for one measly comment. It's not the kind of thing you'd imagine. They thought of her as Karen's pawn and nothing else. Same for Charlotte, Sam and all. They didn't even bother attacking them, since they assumed once Karen's out of they way her pawns would fall with her. Sure, WE knew Cyndi had her own plans, but they couldn't have known that.

It wasn't about Karen taking over the world, it was about Karen being a bitch that currently had power, and if they let her keep it she would hurt other people in the way. Hell, she was about to put Duane through a complete public humiliation and out him as a muslim, and given Belleville's extremely low tolerance and incredible ability to believe absolutely anything without a trace of doubt, that would've had dire consequences for him. Then they'd need a new enemy. They WERE right about that.
Meg was already out of the picture, Sam was too dumb to be anything but a pawn, Charlotte...well. Who takes her seriously anyway? The only mistake was that they underestimated Cyndi.

That is correct, yes, but the point of disagreement is Karen's personal values and beliefs apart from what the IG did. Maybe we should settle this with naked chocolate pudding wrest--I mean by asking T about what prejudices, if any, Karen harboured.

TBH I always thought Karen hated everything she could. I've met a few people like that IRL. They cover up their insecurities by hating on the smallest of things. I knew a guy that loved to get into arguments so much he'd randomly take a side against whatever was discussed at the moment to piss off someone, if that person wasn't in his circle of friends. He'd be completely homophobic(despite always being very nice to the gay guy in our group), a Communist, pro-astrology and would often argue about irrelevant things. (like the correct way to name a singular version of a noun that is, without exception, always used as a plural. think pants)

[Davidj]

You know, I always thought of the Karen ending up taking the world comment as an exageration, which most people use all the time without really meaning it.

I never took it as meaning that she'd be hurting everyone in the world. To me it meant that there was high school, and then there was "the world", life after high school.

[Freemage]

That is correct, yes, but the point of disagreement is Karen's personal values and beliefs apart from what the IG did. Maybe we should settle this with naked chocolate pudding wrest--I mean by asking T about what prejudices, if any, Karen harboured.

First of all, I approve of this method of dispute settlement in most venues other than Congress ('cause, ewwww).

As for the original point of contention, I fall into the camp that Karen was basically expressing whatever view she felt would gain her popularity and help her manipulate her subordinates--and that that is, in many ways, worse than being a bigot herself.

[maritza]

I agree Karen used to think of everything in terms of popularity. Duane was "hateable" because he was a muslim, and as Duane said, it's not such a cool thing to be these days. There's nothing wrong per se with being a muslim, but there's definitely a reason Duane is in the closet about it. As for Karen expressing herself in homofobic terms about Aggie, that's what she said to Marshall. She had a degree of respect for Aggie because she and her pals could "redefine what's cool". Again: popularity.

I always thought Karen was simply just classless. Completely vulgar. "pig-tailed poon partner" "wallflower rugmuncher"... uh, she was talking about Marshall's FRIEND. That's just classless and insensitive. This is why she hated Penny so much: she could drop 70 pounds, win a beauty pageant and land herself a prince. But you can't buy elegance, grace, or class. Penny had all these, Karen DIDN'T.

[TCampbell]

When is it too soon to start caring about social injustice?

Karen was totally happy to have Cyndi macking on a hot girl at one party and hosing Penny down in another. As a social Darwinist, she has little reason to regard Islam as a threat to her faith, and she's too much of a schemer herself to confuse Islam with terrorism. For her, prejudice was a tool, not a trait.

[Alice Macher]

Welp, I was wrong, then. Thanks for clearing it up, T. *Puts away chocolate pudding mix*

[sgtrock]

Welp, I was wrong, then. Thanks for clearing it up, T. *Puts away chocolate pudding mix*

Dang! And here I was ready to go two falls out of three!

[Alice Macher]

Too late. I already gave the pudding mix to Lynda Levac, for her "after dark" webcam show.

Heh. Maybe T should've had Jason draw that (PG-13 tailored, of course), instead of the Assange thing.

[Kitsuiko]

You know, I always thought of the Karen ending up taking the world comment as an exageration, which most people use all the time without really meaning it. I mean, technically it wasn't even Karen that brought Aggie to that state, Penny was talking abit out of her ass there to prove a point.
The point was that Karen was a bad person, currently affecting both of them. And yes, she's the kind of girl who seeks power by stomping on anything that she can. She would have ended up hurting other people, obviously. Not the world of course, but other people. They dealt with it briefly and it was quick, since karen was the type of girl to hit a downward spiral with the smallest of drawbacks.
Then again, they didn't know Cyndi back then. They assumed it was all Karen's fault and ideas being used. They wouldn't fathom Cyndi intentionally pushing Shelly into anorexia and Brandi into secluding herself from the group for one measly comment. It's not the kind of thing you'd imagine. They thought of her as Karen's pawn and nothing else. Same for Charlotte, Sam and all. They didn't even bother attacking them, since they assumed once Karen's out of they way her pawns would fall with her. Sure, WE knew Cyndi had her own plans, but they couldn't have known that.

It wasn't about Karen taking over the world, it was about Karen being a bitch that currently had power, and if they let her keep it she would hurt other people in the way. Hell, she was about to put Duane through a complete public humiliation and out him as a muslim, and given Belleville's extremely low tolerance and incredible ability to believe absolutely anything without a trace of doubt, that would've had dire consequences for him. Then they'd need a new enemy. They WERE right about that.
Meg was already out of the picture, Sam was too dumb to be anything but a pawn, Charlotte...well. Who takes her seriously anyway? The only mistake was that they underestimated Cyndi.

That is correct, yes, but the point of disagreement is Karen's personal values and beliefs apart from what the IG did. Maybe we should settle this with naked chocolate pudding wrest--I mean by asking T about what prejudices, if any, Karen harboured.

TBH I always thought Karen hated everything she could. I've met a few people like that IRL. They cover up their insecurities by hating on the smallest of things. I knew a guy that loved to get into arguments so much he'd randomly take a side against whatever was discussed at the moment to piss off someone, if that person wasn't in his circle of friends. He'd be completely homophobic(despite always being very nice to the gay guy in our group), a Communist, pro-astrology and would often argue about irrelevant things. (like the correct way to name a singular version of a noun that is, without exception, always used as a plural. think pants)

Part of me really does hold the Cyndi plot was partially to offer context to Karen; what someone who REALLY is evil and malicious and out to destroy others just because she can averse to someone who seems that way. As much as I don't like Karen and love Penny - I honestly think that left to her own devises she would have mellowed out on her own. She was in it to win it, yes, but we're all REALLY stupid in high school and she had a positive relationship to help her.

The odd thing about Karen was her desire TO keep the IG around. Why? She didn't need them anymore and she clearly had no problem ditching Glasses McWhines-a-lot. She already won entirely. So... why keep around hostile jackals?

[MJ Stacy]

As a straight female, I'd just like to say that Lynda Levac is hot.

Aaaand, that's my first post ever on this forum. :lol: