"If you don't like the weather, wait ten minutes."

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"If you don't like the weather, wait ten minutes."

Postby TCampbell » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:54 pm

That's what they say out where I live. And it's true-- nobody here knows how to dress for March.

I'm trying not to interact with critics these days unless they actually ask me to, because I feel like I've already had my say by writing the work. But since the reaction to this particular strip's been so negative, I'll make a quick exception, just to clear up a few things.

I think my original note for this story said "a bedroom farce without any bedrooms." I guess I failed at that, because people are saying "waiiit a minute, this is starting to become a farce" when the comedy is actually starting to wind down.

Believe me, though: today's strip is not a sign of where P&A is going. At best, it's a very warped reflection of the series-altering installment I'm really worried about, which will take place a little while after "Dinner For Six." That one worries me like a knife in my gut. You'll know it when you see it.

Next Wednesday, and again during three installments next week, we get views into two characters' heads that we definitely couldn't have gotten if we hadn't poked and prodded them a lot. After that comes a scene or four that I honestly don't know how you'll take-- but at least they don't seem to be scenes that you're expecting. (I did see this negative reaction coming, although not its intensity. Almost posted a thread that said WARNING: YOU'LL HATE MONDAY'S.)

Wait ten minutes.

And finally-- I'm sorry, but I just can't resist-- either it's normal for some men to have sleepy episodes after their sex life goes from zero to 60, or I needed to be checked out by a doctor years ago.
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Re: "If you don't like the weather, wait ten minutes.&q

Postby Fork » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:01 pm

TCampbell wrote:
And finally-- I'm sorry, but I just can't resist-- either it's normal for some men to have sleepy episodes after their sex life goes from zero to 60, or I needed to be checked out by a doctor years ago.


must be an age thing :twisted:
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Postby candycornstomper » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:11 pm

Well, I remember reading a psychology book that men and women have different horomones released in their brains after an orgasm; the one released in women's brains caused them to feel energic, loving,a dn talkative, while in all plainess, the chemicals released in men's brains makes them want to sleep.

For the record, I don't think this strip deserves the negative reaction it's getting. But maybe's it just because circumstances this strange have been unweilded upon me.
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Postby mbtiru » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:33 pm

I want to point out before I continue that I'm not trying to be an ass with anything I'm about to say.

That said. You've effectively just announced to your readers that, yes, the comic currently sucks, but just wait a bit and it will get better. (Yes, I realize that's not what you said verbatim, but that is the implication your statement gives to me.) Doesn't that indicate that you're doing something fundamentally wrong? And doesn't that mean that rather than encouraging people to wait and see, you should be taking (perhaps drastic) measures to get the strip back on track?

Just throwing the idea out there.
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Let's not get carried away

Postby Shadrach » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:42 pm

First, I didn't see anything in T's statement to the effect that he thinks "the comic currently sucks."

Second, just because several readers (myself included) thought that today's strip was stretching believeablility, doesn't mean the strip as a whole is going "fundamentally wrong," nor that T should take "drastic measures" to get the strip back on track. I think you owe T more credit than that. He's been writing well-received comic strips for years. So what if one strip in one storyline strikes us as a bit off? It hardly means that all is lost.

Let's keep it in perspective, please, before we get into the "Undertow" situation where people were shooting flames right and left because of a temporary guest artist.
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Postby Maritza Campos » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:54 pm

I wouldn't say P&A sucks, it jumped the shark, or anything else. I feel for T, because this is a problem I face frequently: I try to make a light-hearted sequence and people are waiting for the other shoe to drop or waiting for the boogeyman to appear behind every door.

Trouble is, the emotional investment in the characters is too big for it to function properly as a farce, even if it IS conceived as one. As an author, one has the omnivision and sees the humor in a situation where you know, everything is gonna be okay. But the readers don't have that and grow impatient when everything goes wrong for apparently no reason at all without ANY kind of payoff. Other elements bring the mood down: yesterday's boobs-in-face clash was hilarious, but it also has Karen crying. Aggie was destroyed by Marshall's misunderstanding. Nick could be seriously hurt (although my guess is that he's just gonna be arrested). This is inevitable and, myself, have not found a solution to it.

In any case, I think the outcome was predictable for today's strip... after all, if a sequence when a teenager plays a soda prank on another brings out the lynch mob... I think this was to be expected, as you say.

As for falllng asleep after sex... heh. I can believe that. But... with your pants around your ankles? Maybe Nick suffers from a form of narcolepsy :D
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Postby missMagdalena » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:58 pm

Well, most of the negativity and especially the "farce" description is mainly due to today's strip. I think it seems too contrived to a lot of people, including me. Other than this strip, though, I like the storyline, and Friday's strip was a real bombshell that sparked a lot of genuine discussion. So as long as we get more strips with insight, and less with implausible slapstick punchlines - and from what you're saying it sounds like that will happen - I think the bitching will cool.
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Postby Freemage » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:05 pm

T.: To be clear, then, at least for myself:

I felt that this particular strip didn't seem to accomplish much worthwhile--unless it was so huge in impact (because Nick ends up in the hospital or jail) that the entire 40-odd strips leading up to it seem like they weren't worth bothering with.

I don't mind farce--but I prefer comedy-of-errors (which is what we've been getting for the rest of this arc, which is WHY I haven't complained before this point--I like the current arc, overall) to slapstick. Since most of the likely outcomes of Nick being conked out could have probably been achieved via c-o-e methods (a janitor walking in and demanding an explanation to slow him down again, for instance, or even a security guard escorting him out forcibly so that he never shows, for instance), I found the slapstick approach unsatisfying.
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Postby Contessa Louisa » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:08 pm

Well actually, a woman's body releases odors after sex that makes the man sleepy... Just throwing that out there... :wink:
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Postby daanton » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:19 pm

"If you don't like the weather, wait ten minutes."

True in Canada, true in the U.S.--quite possibly true almost everywhere else around the world!
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Postby Stella Polaris » Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 am

I have to be honest, among all the comments about how this particular strip sucked, I didn't notice a single one that insinuated that the comic has jumped the shark or has started to suck generally. Did I miss something, or did T make a relatively big leap from "this strip made me headdesk" to "Wow, this comic has really gone to the dogs!"
"Faith - that's another word for ignorance, isn't it?"
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Postby Kashi » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:46 am

I'm still enjoying it.

Just wanted to put that out there.
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Postby Stella Polaris » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:38 am

Kashi wrote:I'm still enjoying it.

Just wanted to put that out there.


Yeah, me too. Just because there are some strips here and there that I don't like, doesn't mean I don't like the strip or the arc in general.
"Faith - that's another word for ignorance, isn't it?"
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Postby Trajedi » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:55 am

I really don't understand what the problem some people are having about Monday's Strip. T and Gisele have done sight gags before. When Sara yelled at Penny and told her to just kiss Aggie and get over it Penny stood outside the school for I believe 2 whole Strips. A few people complained then but it seems very over whelming this time.

I love Penny & Aggie, can't wait until the next Strip but I don't get mad when they change to pacing or throw in a sight gag. Hell, it's one of the reasons I like Penny & Aggie, It has creative writing and visual style. It's smart and reads, to me at any rate, more like a screenplay. In screenplays visual is almost more important then words. The rule is "Don't say it, show it". T could have easily had Nick explain he got knocked out a for a moment when he was about to leave the closet or they could have shown it. As of now I have never seen T or Gisele just put something in the strip just to do it. Everything has a reason. Nick getting knocked out by Karen, there is going to be causality.

Action, reaction.

As for the critics against Karen crying, I don't understand why everyone feels it's unwarranted. Karen is a HUMAN character. Despite the fact she has been a total bitch since her make-over Karen does have feelings beyond Hate, Mean, and Hate. Karen is extremely worried she is going to loose Marshall. I've seen many fans justify Karen and Marshall's relationship as the fact she shows a side to Marshall she shows no other. She obviously generally cares for him AND it's obvious despite her make-over she is still as insecure as she was when she was frumpy and fat. Matter of fact Karen is to some degree probably more insecure because she knows what it's like to be like that and doesn't want to go back. More over that is why she is such a bitch. She probably feels she must put this air up or fall.

As a writer myself I am a little upset at the readers who are starting up the lynch mob. The worst thing in my opinion is to have to justify yourself to already loyal readers. T wasn't saying that Monday's Strip sucked he is stating if you didn't like it just wait until next Strip and more of the story will come... You know like the Comic is serial and not episodic. Wait, the comic is serial and not episodic.

I know everyone wants to know what is going to happen, badly, hell I'm one of them. If I had the money I'd throw Penny & Aggie enough money every week to get those extra Tuesday and Thursday comics. But I don't, so like everyone else I have to wait Until Monday, or Wednesday or Friday to find out what happens. If you think that sucks, there are comics I read that come out only once or week or are supposed to update three times but sometimes the creator doesn't have time and you have to wait longer. T & Gisele have been freaking awesome at updating on time and hell giving us extra issues. Be grateful and patient.

So, I guess I'm saying don't hate on T & Gisele because you want to know what’s going to happen SOO BADLY. Love T & Gisele for you wanting to know what’s going to happen SOO BADLY. Their talent keeps us coming with tongues hanging out begging for more. If you don't enjoy one Strip just wait until the next and I'm sure you'll be happy which is all that I believe T was trying to say.
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Postby Beanie » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:18 pm

No no no... Both men and women release the same hormones after orgasm: prolactin and oxytocin. And generally these have the same effect (though prolactin is supposed to also trigger part of a woman's brain to encourage monogamous bonding while in men that's a different hormone, but I digress.) - sleepytime.

Men fall asleep after sex because they are pretty much guaranteed to orgasm.
News flash! Many women do not orgasm every time they have sex therefore the hormone does not release therefore they do not fall asleep after sex.

And THAT is why men fall asleep after sex, while women don't.
It's all in the orgasm.



I haven't enjoyed most of this arc. But I also know enough about comics to realize that if it really gets to the point that I don't like it, I can (gasp!) stop reading. And that it's T's story, and is probably long since written, and to think even for a second he's going to change the story because a handful of people don't like it is pretty dumb.
Can't please everybody. It happens.
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