[10/29] Hello, slut.

[Mugu]

I think this strip is one of the ways we see Karen's more human and vulnerable side. We're all human. It's just that some people can lean towards good or evil than others. I think she was honestly upset for Marshall's 'betrayal'. In past strips we've seen her declare her love for him without a hint of darkness to it, and so It goes to say that in a relationship "If you're sad, i'm sad. If you're happy, i'm happy." She trusted Marshall with Aggie because of their relationship (If it wasn't for that, She would have put out all stops to bring Aggie down, I'm sure) And now that that friendship is ruined, she feels the betrayal that Marshall feels. I have to admit, I agree with someone else, this is the first time I've really liked Karen. (that'll probably be it though)
I really think that was an excessive way to twist the plot, but when a writer does this, I'm sure that it is just calling (and begging) for changes and redemption in one or more of the characters. Most directingly, at Aggie. When you first meet her in the beginning, yeah, you're told that she's tough and everything, but looking back at it, it was more like a style than a substance she had. I don't think she really got any real evolution until she met Lisa, and now she can really take this and become something. I mean, come on, who's first love - especially when it's squashed - didn't change a person?

[Valerie]

10 Quatloos is the person in the car is Penny.

Karen's eyes in panel 4 suggest otherwise. Still, there are any number of people I'd enjoy seeing step out of the car.

Like, say, the principal.

But she's not wearing a seat belt. 8D

How can you tell?
All I can see is a door handle, a side-mirror, interior lining and part of a steering wheel.

Karen's not wearing a seat belt in the 4th panel, so maybe it's not her driving? XD I dunno. Maybe it is her and she's just not the type to wear them. In which case I hope she gets too distracted glaring at Aggie and runs into a streetlight and conks her snakey face into the steering wheel.

Or runs over Marshall.
Two birds with one stone =]

XD YES.

Also? Am I the only one wondering just HOW Karen got Aggie's phone number?

I thought of that, too.
But maybe it's the same number as when they were "friends."
Or maybe Marshall has it, so Karen has it just because.

[Soph]

I know, over the phone it might not make sense, but I can't see why she would be crying... No one has managed to say anything that fits, for me.


[quote="blunderbuss"]BTW, I hardly think that Karen is crying because of any hurt feelings or because she was nearly found out. I think she's crying because she's angry. I had a sister who cried whenever she got screamfest, and it sure as hell wasn't about hurt or fear, but rather tears of rage towards that uppity person who dared to step on her toes. I mean, listen to Karen's tone - she's furious, insulting Aggie, mocking her, and then hitting her while she was down. This was pure angry vitrol, pure and simple.[/quote]

This sounds best to me. Kinda what I was thinking.

[Trefle]

They remind me of how grueling human interactions in high school really were. XD I should probably not read for a week or two and let the updates pile up.

Ah, yes, it's only 4 months but I can still FEEL the hardness...

still, I gain quite a lot of good memories and lessons too. So it's not all bad.
And reading it that way indeed saves one from dumping enough drama and hatred for the characters.

@Valerie:

She's shown regret for her actions before, and really... I think Karen can relate to Aggie, at least a little.
They were both outcasts for a long time.
It's sort of like, not wanting to attack "your own kind."
You know what I mean?

Granted that, yes, Aggie has always been more confident than Karen.
And Aggie was prettier. And, generally, seemed happier.

But I think the point stands that they have something in common.
So I wouldn't be surprised at all if Karen felt bad for hurting Aggie.

Hmm, I know. But Karen's an outcast because of herself. Aggie...I think just chooses to be because her ideas weren't shared with lots of people in her school. Hence her friendship with the rest of the Team Aggie. But yeah, that's the same, I think.

But if she really feels that, wouldn't she feel bad for using Helen too? I mean, she has MORE similarities with Helen than with Aggie (and I think that's the reason why they become friends in the first place and she got invited..) but I don't see her feeling any guilt using her. Which should ring one or two or a million bells in her mind.

@friadoc:

Well, most good people don't try to destroy folks over petty reasons, like a difference in sexuality, faith, or that you knew her before she "fixed" herself.

She didn't, AFAIK? She said it explicitly that it's not because of that.

[friadoc]

Because I'd wager that every character in the comic, even (especially?) Charlotte, considers themselves to be basically a "good" person.

Maybe, but I bet their using biased and inductive logic instead of unbiased and reasonable deductive logic. It takes an unusually honest person to look at themselves and be truly upfront and truthful about themselves, for good or bad, and it is normally not something a high schooler is capable of.

Hitler (not a correlation to anyone in the comic) thought he was doing good things, working from good core values and societal concepts, yet he wasn't good. Whether someone things of themselves as doing or being good isn't what makes a person good, it is when others look at their actions that you can tell someone is good.

It's simply, straight forward morays and ethics from sociology and psychology, with a bit of philosophy through in for shits and giggles.

[Hasedoki]

XD YES.

Also? Am I the only one wondering just HOW Karen got Aggie's phone number?

I thought of that, too.
But maybe it's the same number as when they were "friends."
Or maybe Marshall has it, so Karen has it just because.

And Aggie answered because the number calling was Marshall's.

[Monet]

I'm here to call Karen a b!tch, Marshall a jack@ss and T evil for playing with my emotions like this.

I'm gonna try not to visit the forums again until Friday. It'll just drive me crazy.

[friadoc]

Actually, I think Karen is more misguided than anything.
She is a good person, or at least a decent one. She just hasn't realized it yet, because she's so caught up in this competition. Because that's what she thinks life is all about: winning, being the best.

Her family, apparently, was made up of very sucessful people.
So of course she thinks that way.
She thinks this will make her sucessful.

But I think that, later down the road, she'll understand how wrong all of this was, and she'll make better decisions that don't hurt anyone.

(And technically, we don't have any proof that Karen had a hand in the rape video, so I don't think you can have "sexual preference" on that list. "Religion" either, for that matter.)

Misguided doesn't earn an accountability blank check, Karen is doing what she is doing, foolishly misguided, but it's by her own choice and that's the slack in the rope that will hang her, sooner or later.

Karen use to be a good person, Penny & Aggie helped her in some ways, but ruined her in others, and that's a cross they're gonna have to bare, been baring, but Karen's gotten worse and worse all on her own. Her choice of cadre is a good sign of her being the villain of the story.

Whether Karen knew about the video doesn't wash her of culpability, as she organized the "Whatever it takes" group. She's the motivation behind the act and the voice who yelled fire, even if she didn't know her friends had chained the doors.

You can't be Lex Luthor and try to play the "I didn't know Metallo was gonna destroy the business district when I released him." It just doesn't fly.

[Kitten]

Oh! I realise I'm not the first person to say it - but what are the odds of Penny being in the car? Does Penny even own/drive a car?

For all the awful things that Karen has done - if T doesn't make her 'fall' really, really satisfying, I am going to be really annoyed. Sort of how Penny was 'finished off' in Karen's POV. I mean - a lot of readers (including myself) were like, 'Ehn, that's it?' It better be a bloodbath, folks.

[Trefle]

I know, over the phone it might not make sense, but I can't see why she would be crying... No one has managed to say anything that fits, for me.

BTW, I hardly think that Karen is crying because of any hurt feelings or because she was nearly found out. I think she's crying because she's angry. I had a sister who cried whenever she got screamfest, and it sure as hell wasn't about hurt or fear, but rather tears of rage towards that uppity person who dared to step on her toes. I mean, listen to Karen's tone - she's furious, insulting Aggie, mocking her, and then hitting her while she was down. This was pure angry vitrol, pure and simple.

This sounds best to me. Kinda what I was thinking.

Hmm....yeah, kinda makes sense.

@Wendy : She probably took it from Mar's phone, since Mar and Aggie was friends.

@Hasedoki : Probably, but Karen said Mar phoned her, so she's not with him at the moment, no?
Maybe it's a number she didn't know.

@friadoc: Mostly, yes. They're indeed using biased logic and subjective views about themselves. Aren't we all?
It takes an unusually honest person OR IMO, a doormat (since they're so used to think lowly about themselves?) to think clearly about themselves (or at least not so highly / good).

Maybe an ex-doormat would be better. a.k.a someone who's been a doormat before and is trying to be a better person.

[Valerie]

XD YES.

Also? Am I the only one wondering just HOW Karen got Aggie's phone number?

I thought of that, too.
But maybe it's the same number as when they were "friends."
Or maybe Marshall has it, so Karen has it just because.

And Aggie answered because the number calling was Marshall's.

Yeah, if Karen were using Marshall's phone.
But the only thing that interferes with that is there's no way Marshall would have made it to Karen's place that quickly.
And that Karen said Marshall called and told her, which he wouldn't have done if she were near enough that she could use his phone.

Plus I doubt she'd be making this call in his company, because it really does make her seem horrid.

Trefle: I think it could be that Helen was okay with being used.

Edited to fix my coding because I tried to start with bold and end with italics. Wtf, Val.

[Wendy]

Edit: Haaaaaah, what she said ^

XD YES.

Also? Am I the only one wondering just HOW Karen got Aggie's phone number?

I thought of that, too.
But maybe it's the same number as when they were "friends."
Or maybe Marshall has it, so Karen has it just because.

And Aggie answered because the number calling was Marshall's.

Naaaaaah... That would only work if she were calling from Marshall's cell, and he wouldn't have needed to 'call her and tell her what happened' if they were together right then.

Eh, whatever. Not really important, just kind of wondering.

[friadoc]

@friadoc:

Well, most good people don't try to destroy folks over petty reasons, like a difference in sexuality, faith, or that you knew her before she "fixed" herself.

She didn't, AFAIK? She said it explicitly that it's not because of that.

If by her you mean Karen, eh. She said it during a moment to call and rub salt in the wounds of a crushed person, so I'd stick with that, since it was said during the moment she cut Penny & Aggie loose and not have a couple of years thinking about it.

I think it was just a twist of the knife, nothing more or less. Karen was a lot more upfront, back then, compared to how she is now.

[Valerie]

Because I'd wager that every character in the comic, even (especially?) Charlotte, considers themselves to be basically a "good" person.

Maybe, but I bet their using biased and inductive logic instead of unbiased and reasonable deductive logic. It takes an unusually honest person to look at themselves and be truly upfront and truthful about themselves, for good or bad, and it is normally not something a high schooler is capable of.

Hitler (not a correlation to anyone in the comic) thought he was doing good things, working from good core values and societal concepts, yet he wasn't good. Whether someone things of themselves as doing or being good isn't what makes a person good, it is when others look at their actions that you can tell someone is good.

It's simply, straight forward morays and ethics from sociology and psychology, with a bit of philosophy through in for shits and giggles.

Godwin, right?
That's all I had to say about this post, really.

[Mr. Brightside]

This is like a Greek tragedy: they're all horrible people, and they're all going to die for it.

Wait, that's not right. Then there wouldn't be a strip.

They'll all...lose everything? Except...

THEATRE!